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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2010
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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I think he's talking about the Taurus Demon. There's no area to get the hang of on the way to the Hellkite dragon.

The Taurus Demon is simple--you just climb up the castle tower right after you cause the demon to spawn, and plunge attack him before he jumps up after you. You need a solid shield and good blocking-vs-letting-stamina-recharge game to finish him off, or a strong ass weapon like the one that sometimes drops from the Black Knight in the initial area.
Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:47 am
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2010
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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FreddyD wrote:
Where do you think the physics are poorly implemented?


One area in particular I was thinking of when I wrote that is the Valley of the Drakes, on the side with the bonfire and elevator. Right after entering the area you have to fight a drake that uses a breath weapon lightning and likes to use jumps to reposition itself if you get behind it for too long. Where the jumps land essentially depend on how you were oriented when it committed to the jump, and a lot of time for me it was landing on one of the rock piles right near the doorway to the elevator room. Unless you want to dodge the breath weapon until it decides to jump again, you have no choice but to clamber up and fight it. The drake has rock-solid footing but the whole thing for you is like a hill made of flat glass; ascend too high and you just slide back down. Having to fight that drake on flat ground is hard enough--having to contend with which direction the game will send you sliding when it decides you've crossed the line from navigable floor to inclined slope makes the thing unfair.

Other examples include fighting minibosses such as Black Knights and Titanite Demons; the game likes to put you into narrow corridors to fight them, and the designers implemented physics where when your weapon swing comes into contact with a wall, there is a ricochet effect and the weapon bounces off. This is intended to make you be thoughtful about whether to use thrust weapons or weapons with a wide, slashing arc. Normally that would be an enhancement, but a lot of times the enemies you fight in those areas will follow you halfway around a corner and then hit you with a strike that has clipped straight through a wall. If the mechanic is that both sides are impeded by their environment, it's good game design. If the mechanic is that you're impeded but the enemy's attacks pass right through surfaces that deflect your counter-attacks, it's broken.

I definitely like the sense of weight around the weapons and armor, the feeling that attacks have real stopping power rather than keeping a running tally of damage dealt toward death at zero. I like how carefully they've tuned the stamina costs for blocking, dodging, and rolling--and how they make you contend with occasional enemies that use those same mechanics to blur the line between PvE and PvP gameplay.

But the PvP gameplay is unacceptable. The first time I was invaded, I could no do damage at all to the other player, even with my strongest attack. He toyed with me until it was apparent I couldn't win and then nailed me with a one hit kill from significant range. Later I found his name on the "Book of the Guilty" and he was a level 15 character with 99 in every stat, and infinite spell use on lots of spells. Cheater, or at least that's how it looked to me.

The fact that somebody like that can just come into my nominally solo game session and erase significant amounts of my progress at no benefit to him and with no way for me to switch it off other than unplugging my Xbox 360 network connection before I start playing? Also broken--badly so.
Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:06 am
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7781
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no, im right before there where you fight the big flying taurus demon thing on the bridge


i decided to take a break from tryin this part so i decided to explore more and backtrack and find other paths, which i did and i collected some items im glad to have found and even leveled up a bit more was walking around with a few thosand souls, yet all these pathways were basicly dead ends and one path which let to all these ghosts that slaughtered me instantly sooooooo, now im back where i have been the whole damn time at this stupid bonfire, now im trying to beat this huge black knight who is right before the taurus demon if you turn right and go down some stairs, i get sssooooooooooo close to beating him but he ends up killing me everytime, and i see something in the area hes guarding that i know has to be of some value


as of now ive been in this 1 area in the beginning of the game just slashing these knights and skeletons over and over and over and over then upgrading some stuff at the shop i found and then doing this and then trying to fight one the 2 tuff guys at the end of this road , been doing this forever And on top of that ive lost all my souls from dying right before collecting my previous dead body :(



a review i watched of dark souls 2 said that dark souls 2 might be the game to start with , its not easier it just leads you into the game better
Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:12 pm
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2010
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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Yep, to know Dark Souls is to love it.

The way I beat that first black knight is to buy a Sorcerer's Catalyst and the Force Arrow spell from the smith in the New Londo Ruins, and stay out of the knight's range, hitting him with a spell every time he misses me with the sword.

Eventually if you have a shield that absorbs 100% physical damage and enough titanite shards applied to it that your stability is in the mid 60s or higher, you can start to block his strikes with shield and counter-attack using something like a spear or the Estoc sword. As long as you're conservative to where you have a little stamina left after your strike, his counter-attack will be blocked and you can get out of range before lowering your shield so that stamina can recover.

The game has a very intense and arrhythmic attack, counter-attack, recover cycle. It's nothing like the timing-and-flow stuff in those Rocksteady Batman games. Learning to survive tougher fights is mostly about learning which thing you need to be doing at any given time.

The black knight is optional, you can backtrack and fight him later. He drops a titanite chunk which is not needed until later-game weapon upgrades unlocked, and possibly (if you're lucky!) a strong, slow sword that requires 20 strength and 16 dexterity to wield. The treasure behind him is a ring that raises your defense if your health is very low. Since your goal in every fight should be to avoid allowing your health to fall much at all, it's not as good as some of the other ones that start coming soon after.
Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:37 pm
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FreddyD



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 303
Location: Hartford, CT
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Thanks Mark, I understand where you're coming from now, and you definitely have a point. I just tend to chalk those things up to more random quirks than specifically bad design. I guess I could be wrong. Generally, though certainly not always, you can draw enemies out and fight them on your preferred terrain. That's something I do constantly when encountering enemies in cooridors that favor them either intentionally or just through bad game design to try to mitigate the frustration factor. Still, that doesn't excuse incidents where you're hit through a wall, or, something that happens fairly often, you dogde through or clear of an attack animation that clearly misses you, yet you still get thumped.

I've honestly never encountered a situation like you describe in PvP...I play on PS3, I don't know if they have tighter controls against that sort of thing or whatever, but it's clearly ridiculous. Generally I'm not huge on the PvP elements myself, though I do appreciate the edge of unpredictability they perpetuate throughout the game.

Neuro: as Mark said, just Plunge Attack the Taurus Demon to death by backtracking to the tower you enter through and climbing the ladder outside it. Once you figure that out, he's a piece of cake. Then you'll encounter the Reg Dragon I mentioned...

Speaking of plunging attacks, that's also a great way to deal with that first Black Knight. Draw him out and backtrack a bit to that open square shaped area where there's grass and a ladder you can climb to get on the roof of a building you passed by earlier. It's not the highest distance, but the Knight can't hit you up there, and he'll meander below you when you climb up. Plunge attack him from there, evade, and look for an opening to get back to the ladder and repeat the process.
Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:15 pm
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7781
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Post Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:22 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8542
Location: Third Coast
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Ya'll are gluttons for punishment. I can't fathom investing my time into something so unrewarding. Beating a particular enemy would only feel like a pyrrhic victory.
Post Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:56 am
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7781
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if you can find it for dirt cheap cap, i think its something you should at least check it out just to see for your self


Honestly, its probally the first game since discovering Fallout 3, that i find truly intriguing even though i suck balls at it




also FreddyD, do you think that Dark Souls 2 is the game in the series newcomers actually should start with?, did they set up DS2 with a better introduction to what the game is
Post Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:45 am
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7781
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if you can find it for dirt cheap cap, i think its something you should at least check it out just to see for your self


Honestly, its probally the first game since discovering Fallout 3, that i find truly intriguing even though i suck balls at it




also FreddyD, do you think that Dark Souls 2 is the game in the series newcomers actually should start with?, did they set up DS2 with a better introduction to what the game is
Post Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:45 am
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FreddyD



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 303
Location: Hartford, CT
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Neuro wrote:
also FreddyD, do you think that Dark Souls 2 is the game in the series newcomers actually should start with?, did they set up DS2 with a better introduction to what the game is


Yes. The beginning area in DS2 sets you up with a lot of lore surrounding the overarching stroyline, and there is a full blown tutorial area (broken up as a series of mist-gates that teach you how do do everything in the game) that's really easy to navigate. From that standpoint, I think you get a better idea of what you're actually getting into with DS2 than you do with either of the first two Souls games.

Also, there are a couple other things that make DS2 a bit more accessible. For one, you can fast-travel between bonfires, which makes it easier to hop around the map without re-fighting as much shit. I'm not a huge fan of that because I feel like it makes the game less immersive, but overall I think it's well received, especially by newcomers to the series.

Secondly - and I just learned this last night - there are now essentially "death limits" assigned to each area on the map. When you exceed a certain number of deaths, the enemies in that area will start to NOT respawn when you die. So if you die 30 times on a boss, those last 10 times you have to run back to him might be free of enemies to clear. This is a pretty big adjustment that makes the game less tedious overall, though I can't figure out if I actually like it yet.

Don't get me wrong though. The core difficulty is just as high if not higher than the previous games in terms of strength of enemies and devious level design and impossible bosses, etc. The gradual loss of life with each death also adds difficulty, imo. But overall, I do think the game is more accessible to beginners and mainstream video game fans.
Post Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:27 pm
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7781
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well, dark souls 2 might be the last 360 game i purchase before upgrading, why isnt this game on next gen? graphics wise the new system would do it great IMO
Post Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:09 pm
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Mikal kHill



Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 6851
Location: http://mikalkhill.com
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I dunno if i mentioned it here already or not, but I'm really enjoying the Fable games that Telltale are doing. Inspired me to pick the graphic novesl up all over again.
Post Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:04 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8542
Location: Third Coast
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I thought this was an interesting read on the Dark Souls franchise.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-glorious-and-necessary-torture-of-dark-souls
Post Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:04 am
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Juan
girls don juan anything to do with me


Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 1124
Location: Ohio
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Mikal kHill wrote:
I dunno if i mentioned it here already or not, but I'm really enjoying the Fable games that Telltale are doing. Inspired me to pick the graphic novesl up all over again.


I've enjoyed these as well. The 2nd chapter seemed a little short to me, but maybe it was just the long wait for it's release making me feel that way.

Telltale is also working on a Game of Thrones franchise and a Borderlands one as well if you didn't read that.
Post Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:50 am
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Prontoid



Joined: 07 Aug 2002
Posts: 1609
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Neuro wrote:
no, im right before there where you fight the big flying taurus demon thing on the bridge


i decided to take a break from tryin this part so i decided to explore more and backtrack and find other paths, which i did and i collected some items im glad to have found and even leveled up a bit more was walking around with a few thosand souls, yet all these pathways were basicly dead ends and one path which let to all these ghosts that slaughtered me instantly sooooooo, now im back where i have been the whole damn time at this stupid bonfire, now im trying to beat this huge black knight who is right before the taurus demon if you turn right and go down some stairs, i get sssooooooooooo close to beating him but he ends up killing me everytime, and i see something in the area hes guarding that i know has to be of some value


as of now ive been in this 1 area in the beginning of the game just slashing these knights and skeletons over and over and over and over then upgrading some stuff at the shop i found and then doing this and then trying to fight one the 2 tuff guys at the end of this road , been doing this forever And on top of that ive lost all my souls from dying right before collecting my previous dead body :(



a review i watched of dark souls 2 said that dark souls 2 might be the game to start with , its not easier it just leads you into the game better


Whatever you do don't grind away trying to level up as it's mainly a waste of time. Your progression comes mainly from the items you pick up. If you are having troubles with a particular bit look up on the wiki how to approach it. This is one game where I kind of feel that is necessary a lot so you aren't just wasting time. The skill is in implementing the strategy.
Post Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:44 am
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