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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7789
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http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/08/las-vegas-business-owner-fired-22-mostly-hispanic-employees-over-obama-win/
Post Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:32 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19373
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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firefly wrote:
These guys are definitely bat shit crazy, ignorant and most likely racist. I can see how this can be amusing at a glance but if you really analize the situation it is quite sad and scary. I think it's best to ignore such people.

Laughter can be very empowering, it can bring people together but it can also be violent and separate us all even more.

My 2 cents. :)


I disagree. By shaming racists, you are telling the rest of society what is okay and not okay. Letting it go, is quiet validation of the viewpoint and allows the movement to grow.

Obviously there are people it will push to the margins--but they deserve to be on the margins with all of the other racist lunatics out there.
Post Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:41 am
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Eric B



Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 1327
Location: Omaha, Ne
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http://www.modbee.com/2012/11/08/2448491/obama-threat-gets-woman-fired.html

So there were some repercussions for inflammatory posts after the election. You work at Cold Stone, and you still vote for Romney?! Racists are really not smart.

*edit, she wasn't even registered to vote!
Post Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:43 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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futuristxen wrote:
firefly wrote:
These guys are definitely bat shit crazy, ignorant and most likely racist. I can see how this can be amusing at a glance but if you really analize the situation it is quite sad and scary. I think it's best to ignore such people.

Laughter can be very empowering, it can bring people together but it can also be violent and separate us all even more.

My 2 cents. :)


I disagree. By shaming racists, you are telling the rest of society what is okay and not okay. Letting it go, is quiet validation of the viewpoint and allows the movement to grow.

Obviously there are people it will push to the margins--but they deserve to be on the margins with all of the other racist lunatics out there.


To a certain degree I agree with you, in the sense that as a society we shouldn't tolerate certain types of behavior; however, is that the real intention of the shaming/laughing at? Intention is most often underestimated. What I've been seeing in the last couple of days on the old facebooks is more like a war, laughing at others out of anger and revenge. The energies people are putting out there are not constructive or positive in anyway. It just looks like people being manipulated into putting a lot of their energy into a mostly media driven conflict. Maybe I live in a bubble where I don't see that type of ignorance often but it's my opinion that these ideologies are dying. It feels best to ignore them and invest my energy into more positive/constructive things.
Post Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:53 pm
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the mean
Certified O.G.


Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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Location: philly/sacto/kauai/ohio
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I want Stumbleweed's reaction to "legal" weed in CO.



I'm guessing dude is locked in his room for quite awhile.
Post Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:16 pm
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xGasPricesx



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1553
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the mean wrote:
I want Stumbleweed's reaction to "legal" weed in CO.



I'm guessing dude is locked in his room for quite awhile.


Speaking of whom, I haven't seen that dude's posts around here in what feels like forever. Are any of you guys friends with him on any of the other social media sites? If so, is he still around the internetz but just hasn't been able to post around here or what? I miss me some Stumbleweed.
Post Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:51 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19373
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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firefly wrote:
futuristxen wrote:
firefly wrote:
These guys are definitely bat shit crazy, ignorant and most likely racist. I can see how this can be amusing at a glance but if you really analize the situation it is quite sad and scary. I think it's best to ignore such people.

Laughter can be very empowering, it can bring people together but it can also be violent and separate us all even more.

My 2 cents. :)


I disagree. By shaming racists, you are telling the rest of society what is okay and not okay. Letting it go, is quiet validation of the viewpoint and allows the movement to grow.

Obviously there are people it will push to the margins--but they deserve to be on the margins with all of the other racist lunatics out there.


To a certain degree I agree with you, in the sense that as a society we shouldn't tolerate certain types of behavior; however, is that the real intention of the shaming/laughing at? Intention is most often underestimated. What I've been seeing in the last couple of days on the old facebooks is more like a war, laughing at others out of anger and revenge. The energies people are putting out there are not constructive or positive in anyway. It just looks like people being manipulated into putting a lot of their energy into a mostly media driven conflict. Maybe I live in a bubble where I don't see that type of ignorance often but it's my opinion that these ideologies are dying. It feels best to ignore them and invest my energy into more positive/constructive things.


I don't disagree with the sentiment. I also think though that personal intent is different from sort of viral cultural intent. Though I also agree that for the most part what we're looking at is people who are just largely ignorant about things on both sides, thinking they are separate entities when they aren't--ostensibly so the two parties in America can make money by banking off that separation.

However all of that said. Racism, sexism, and homophobia are definitely very much alive, and in parts of the country are experiencing a resurgence--even as they are receding in other parts. America is quite different from Canada on these issues.

But I mean look at Europe--it looks like ten times worse over there right now. Eastern Europe is making googly eyes at Nazis. England can't even go through two weeks of football matches without something racist happening. The French and Spanish have all kinds of racist problems.

I suppose in comparison to Europe, North America is looking like calm waters these days.
Post Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:11 am
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the mean
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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Guessing futurist won't like this:

http://jezebel.com/5958993/racist-teens-forced-to-answer-for-tweets-about-the-nigger-president
Post Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:45 am
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Brynjar



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 1475
Location: Rivertown
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futuristxen wrote:

But I mean look at Europe--it looks like ten times worse over there right now. Eastern Europe is making googly eyes at Nazis. England can't even go through two weeks of football matches without something racist happening. The French and Spanish have all kinds of racist problems.

I suppose in comparison to Europe, North America is looking like calm waters these days.


I've never understood why people compare Europe and North America (USA and Canada). Many nations in Europe have more things in common with USA then for example Montenegro or Azerbaijan. It has many subregions the would better serve as a comparison imo.

Post Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:25 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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the mean wrote:
Guessing futurist won't like this:

http://jezebel.com/5958993/racist-teens-forced-to-answer-for-tweets-about-the-nigger-president


Is it legal to blow up minors like that? They've got names and locations and all those are kids.

I don't get why talking shit back to shitheads isn't enough for people. Pointing and laughing at an idiot is what the deal is. But now days everybody has to try and get a person's address, round up a posse, and try to ruin some lives over some words.
Post Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:00 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8547
Location: Third Coast
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futuristxen wrote:
the mean wrote:
Guessing futurist won't like this:

http://jezebel.com/5958993/racist-teens-forced-to-answer-for-tweets-about-the-nigger-president


Is it legal to blow up minors like that? They've got names and locations and all those are kids.

I don't get why talking shit back to shitheads isn't enough for people. Pointing and laughing at an idiot is what the deal is. But now days everybody has to try and get a person's address, round up a posse, and try to ruin some lives over some words.


The same rights that allow them to post their racist opinions allow others to call them out, especially since the kids did so in a public forum. And I don't this was so much about outing these kids as teaching them that there are consequences for the things you say and do, that you can't just spout off with impunity. That's why "talking shit back to shitheads" doesn't work. They don't have to take responsibility for anything. This is particularly true over the internet. Speaking of, I think the Jezebel piece was a good way to disabuse those kids of the idea that they were somehow anonymous and protected because they were saying this things online. And frankly, I think we can all agree that the greater issue here is not the kids but their parents and their community, which either foster or at least make acceptable such racist, ignorant behavior. It fucks my head up that I live in this kind of world.

And I don't think anyone's lives were ruined by this article. This is not slander or libel. This is a calling out on bullshit. And these are high school kids with at least some grasp, one hopes, of reality, cause and effect, morality, action and consequence. I think just about every child learns that if you do something wrong and are caught there is a punishment coming. Frankly, if all these kids had to do was claim their Twitter accounts were hacked and then delete them, they got off light.
Post Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:51 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Yeah because nothing motivates a teenager to a particular viewpoint than the establishment crashing down on their head with a force they find unreasonable.

I'm sure stuff like this won't just push some of these kids out further to the fringes. On this point I am in agreement with Firefly.

The way to change people's hateful minds is one to one engagement--talking things out. Being human about shit.

I've changed more right wing conservatives thoughts on gay and trans rights just by being myself and being human--than I ever would have if I had taken an antagonistic approach to it.

All things like this do is make anonymous overly righteous people on the internet feel like they are making a difference in the world--when they are really just bullying other people. Stuff like this is very much about the "me too" of it. You can't do shit about anything important--so you have to exercise your power in mundane silly ways against those with less power. It disgusts me. Even if I agree with the sentiments being expressed by the mob that what these kids are saying is dumb.

The same people who gleefully re-elected a president that is remote control murdering innocent women and children on the other side of the planet--want me to believe that putting up the names and locations of idiot high schoolers makes them the real deal...bleaugh.
Post Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:06 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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My oh my, you are a soft touch.

I can see, on the one hand, how sitting down with a high school kid and actually engaging them in discourse might work. That's if they want to talk and think you're worth listening to. And they feel like not being stubborn on that day. So ya, that's an option.

On the other hand, you can demonstrate to them that there are tangible repercussions for the things you do that extend beyond a 15-minute dialogue with the guidance counselor. I obviously can't speak for you or anyone else, but what taught me right from wrong while growing up was punishment, be it a whooping, the removal of a particular toy, or the suspension of a privilege. I got all three of those things as I grew up. But goddammit if I didn't learn the lesson. I'm not advocating corporal punishment here, as I think that's the wrong way to go, but I do think there needs to be something more than an awkward chit-chat were the kid can just sit there and space out. Why not community service? Why not be suspended from school and then forced to take summer classes? Why not being suspended from a sports team? Those are things that actually impact these kids because they actually care about them the loss of their personal time and status. Will the message work on all of them? Of course not. It never does, whether you're talking to them are giving them the paddle. But I think it's more effective at this point than just a talking to.
----------------------------------------

In totally different news, apparently some real patriots have organized petitions for their states to secede from the United States.

http://awarenessact.com/index.php?do=%2Fwhite-house-petitions%2F

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20301477

And then what? They'd all be an organized band of secessionist states? They'd be independently governed? They'd have access to what resources? What rights would the citizens have if they left the state, assuming the United States granted them entry?

What I don't think people realize in this scenario is that secession, in this instance, creates for more problems than it solves. Everything funded by the federal government is now on its own. There are sovereignty and border issues. There are now issues concerning the basic transport of goods from non-secessionist states. There is also the possibility that these movements could be treated as treasonous, which isn't good. I can't see anything actually happening with this, but I do smell a shitstorm a'comin'.
Post Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:10 am
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Jesse Custer



Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1258
Location: London
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futuristxen wrote:


But I mean look at Europe--it looks like ten times worse over there right now. Eastern Europe is making googly eyes at Nazis. England can't even go through two weeks of football matches without something racist happening. The French and Spanish have all kinds of racist problems.

I suppose in comparison to Europe, North America is looking like calm waters these days.


Haha.. What? No.

The level of overt racism is certainly higher in the USA. Not to say that there isn't plenty going on here, but please. The British Nationalist Party had a bit of time in the light (a very small number of representatives in Parliament). It's to be expected in recent times of economic crisis - it always leads to more extreme politics. But they were given enough rope and they hung themselves. They're utterly discredited now.

As for the Conservative government - yeah, they want to completely shit on poor people but that sentiment is race-indiscriminate for the most part. Meanwhile, the other party on your two party system just fought a closely lost election pretty brazenly appealing to racist voters.

But yeah, Europe is big and diverse and there's plenty of racism going on in parts of it. Some of the stuff going on in Greece since they've been in turmoil is absolutely shocking... Like this, for example, since I was reding it earlier - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/1113/1224326523978.html
And that's not the only example I've read and heard about first hand. Scandinavia and some Eastern European countries too have got some messed up shit going on.

Spain have never had great record for race relations as we have seen examples of on this board, but I don't think it's as bad there as you think it is either.
Post Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:22 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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xGasPricesx wrote:
the mean wrote:
I want Stumbleweed's reaction to "legal" weed in CO.



I'm guessing dude is locked in his room for quite awhile.


Speaking of whom, I haven't seen that dude's posts around here in what feels like forever. Are any of you guys friends with him on any of the other social media sites? If so, is he still around the internetz but just hasn't been able to post around here or what? I miss me some Stumbleweed.


On Facebook he's been really interested in the way this will pan out, but I don't think I've seen any wild celebration or anything. He's still around but he's got a lot going on. I'll ping him.
Post Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:35 pm
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