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What unfair prejudices do you hold?
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1829
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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The girl with the Drag-On tattoo.
Post Mon May 14, 2012 12:42 am
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
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redball wrote:
Do young men get more tickets because they are earned, or more tickets because the perception that they need to be kept in line? Are young men targeted by law enforcement, and perhaps by lawmakers when crafting legislation?
No, women and Asians are targeted by law enforcement because law enforcement is familiar with the same stand-up comedians as the rest of us. In what ways are you proposing lawmakers might be acting to stick to young men?


Quote:

I'm willing to accept that my wife shared some fault in that accident, but I believe that the other driver's age and status played a large role in the decision to find her at fault.
I agree with you, but I think that an old man in a BMW is a young man for the purposes of this discussion. I think that he would agree.


Quote:

I think the most important unfair bias related to driving that any of us have is that we think that we are better than average drivers. Meanwhile the "average driver" is a metric that doesn't really exist. Even if it did, studies show that a majority of drivers believe they are above average, which is a statistical impossibility. Everyone is overestimating their abilities, sometimes grossly so.
I think you're right about this, but I also want to point out that overwhelmingly, we are young men. I know you meant "we" in the sense of "drivers in this culture," but if you look at Prointoid's post that comes two after yours (and many of the posts prior to mine), it's pretty clear that this room is full of people who hold the bias you attribute to "we."

(I think I would be a terrible driver; that's part of why I don't drive. If I did drive, I would probably be as bad in my attitude as anyone else - that's another part.)
Post Mon May 14, 2012 8:08 am
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mzehe916



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 4543
Location: Switzerland
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[quote="Prontoid"]
mzehe916 wrote:
mlanifesto wrote:
And it took me two years to get used to the phrase, "Are you alright?" as opposed to "How are you?" I thought they thought I was mad or something. My response was usually, "Yeah, why do you ask?"


Yer people get mega confused abroad when I ask "how you going" or say "No worries"


"No worries" is pretty common, but I do know people who simply hate that saying in general. I tend to use it. Look at the sentence, "how you going?" What is is asking? What method of transport will you be taking? Weird, innit? I don't know how to properly use "innit," but I assume it means "isn't it?"
Post Mon May 14, 2012 12:52 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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Jesse wrote:
No, women and Asians are targeted by law enforcement because law enforcement is familiar with the same stand-up comedians as the rest of us. In what ways are you proposing lawmakers might be acting to stick to young men?


I'm saying they pay more attention to young men. They are more likely to charge young men when they stop them. Is this endemic, or even a behavior we should particularly try to change? I don't know. It is a cultural thing. It's there. I don't feel like dragging out stats or anything on this. Watch an episode of cops or something.

Jesse wrote:

Quote:

I'm willing to accept that my wife shared some fault in that accident, but I believe that the other driver's age and status played a large role in the decision to find her at fault.
I agree with you, but I think that an old man in a BMW is a young man for the purposes of this discussion. I think that he would agree.


I disagree. I think age and financial status made a huge difference. Are you suggesting that cops give young guys the pass? If that's the case, then you're saying that the additional amount of tickets they receive actually under represents their poor driving behaviors. I'm not sure there's any evidence to back that claim up.

Jesse wrote:
I think you're right about this, but I also want to point out that overwhelmingly, we are young men. I know you meant "we" in the sense of "drivers in this culture," but if you look at Prointoid's post that comes two after yours (and many of the posts prior to mine), it's pretty clear that this room is full of people who hold the bias you attribute to "we."

(I think I would be a terrible driver; that's part of why I don't drive. If I did drive, I would probably be as bad in my attitude as anyone else - that's another part.)


How could you assume "drivers in this culture" would mean this forum? It does not. It means Western Driving culture, especially North America, and more specifically the United States. The forum cannot have a driving culture because the forum exists where no driving occurs, on the Internet, and it is comprised of people from different social, geographic, and legal cultures. The sample is too small to make any sort of generalities from this forum.

My entire post was to point out that using insurance rates or traffic violation rates alone is inherently biased against young men. It wasn't to say that young men are better than any other group of drivers, which is an argument you'll notice I did not make. My viewpoint on this is simple: Every driver in North America is a bad driver in some way, and it's a fucking miracle that the roads aren't paved with blood. Trying to pigeonhole one group of people as "bad drivers" is stupid, and any attempt to do it will be exposed to personal and cultural biases that will influence the result.
Post Mon May 14, 2012 12:55 pm
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
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No one group is bad drivers. Insurance rates aren't based on charges laid; drivers aren't insured against charges. I think you mixed up me asking how lawmakers stick it to young men with how cops interact with them, but it's not very important.

"Old man in a BMW" was intended to suggest that financial status made a huge difference; that financial status is what I meant makes him count as young. I am not with you in the idea that young men are disproportionately targeted for receiving tickets and such. I'm not making the claim that their poor driving behaviours are underrepresented... but I don't really think they aren't.

I acknowledged that I was perverting your use of "we" to mean the people (mostly drivers) posting about this topic on this forum for a rhetorical purpose. I wasn't trying to mischaracterize the belief you were expressing.

The roads ARE paved with blood. Everyone is a really bad driver.
Post Mon May 14, 2012 1:52 pm
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T-Wrex
p00ny tang


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Plum Puddin' wrote:
The girl with the Drag-On tattoo.

Post Mon May 14, 2012 2:35 pm
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
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Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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What I understand from the limited amount of neuroscientific research I've been exposed to over the years is that young men have much greater propensities for risk-taking than any other age- or sex-specific demographic, because of high testosterone levels coupled with still-underdeveloped prefrontal cortices.

What I understand from the limited amount of sociological research I've been exposed to over the years is that this same demographic rules in DUI and reckless driving conviction rates in almost every place where these sorts of statistics are kept.

What I understand from my own anecdotal experiences driving as a young man is that I, and all of my young male friends, are in some sense all lucky to be alive after the choices we've collectively made on the road.

I don't think I'm being intellectually dishonest or, frankly, incorrect at all in moving to the conclusion that young men are the most dangerous drivers.
Post Mon May 14, 2012 9:00 pm
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Lants



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2234
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i am prejudiced against men who play team sports. like afl or rugy out in Oz. i know it's totally unfair, but i consider them mostly misogynists and when drunk most likely rapists. like to the point i am scared of them.

i judge people unfairly when i realise they are actively religious.
Post Tue May 15, 2012 9:35 am
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mzehe916



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 4543
Location: Switzerland
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Lants wrote:
i am prejudiced against men who play team sports. like afl or rugy out in Oz. i know it's totally unfair, but i consider them mostly misogynists and when drunk most likely rapists. like to the point i am scared of them.



Is this a common feeling? I have a German friend who spent some months in Australia. She had a very negative experience with a guy like this in a somewhat public setting courtyard where a party was taking place). And she said people just gathered and watched. I was rather disgusted. And for this reason I tend to dislike australian men as well.
Post Tue May 15, 2012 10:36 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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Old people fucking suck at driving and there are plenty of statistics to back it up:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2012/03/when_to_stop_driving_why_it_s_so_hard_to_get_elderly_drivers_off_the_road_.html

Old people kill other people because they are not capable of driving and we still give them licenses. This is not OK even if it falls into your "prejudice" realm. Sometimes prejudices just happen to be true.

Sure each case should be determined individually, but when you start losing your eyesight, hearing, mind, etc. these are all things that are critical to being a good driver. Stop standing up for people just for the sake of standing up for them.

also note: Teenagers are the most dangerous drivers, hence the high insurance rates. Your pure speculation doesn't change this: http://dmv.ca.gov/teenweb/more_btn6/traffic/traffic.htm
Post Tue May 15, 2012 11:14 am
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anomaly
Loserface


Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 2579
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jakethesnake wrote:
Women fucking suck at driving and there are plenty of statistics to back it up:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2012/03/when_to_stop_driving_why_it_s_so_hard_to_get_women_drivers_to_use_their_brains.html

Women kill other people because they are not capable of driving and we still give them licenses. This is not OK even if it falls into your "prejudice" realm. Sometimes prejudices just happen to be true.

Sure each case should be determined individually, but when they start doing your makeup, talking on the phone, don't have good motor skills, etc. these are all things that are critical to being a good driver. Stop standing up for women just for the sake of hoping they won't make you drive them to the mall and carry their shit all around that mofo.


also note: Female teenagers are the most dangerous drivers, hence the high insurance rates. Your pure speculation doesn't change this: http://dmv.ca.gov/teenfemweb/more_btn6/traffic/traffic.htm
Post Tue May 15, 2012 11:19 am
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zagadka
DARK PAST HAVER


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 4932
Location: Hous of Gaga
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Road bikers.

I cannot handle most road bikers. Here in the burbs, its this weird wannabe-rich-guy sport. They all ride in their boldly branded spandex outfits proclaiming to the world "Look! Look! I DO things!". It doesn't matter if they're solo or riding 3 deep, they take up the entire lane and do not use that god forsaken mini mirror that's mounted to their fucking helmet to see if there is a gigantic line of cars behind them. (There usually is.)

You have itty bitty tires, why can't you ride on the white line or on the right side of it? Whyyyy???

So many things revolving around driving irritate me, I'm not really sure why...
Post Tue May 15, 2012 8:28 pm
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 903
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You guys, this is stupid. Saying you don't like dudes who wear Tap-Out shirts isn't breaking new ground.

I think every black person can beat me up and would probably put up with a lot of shit not to fight one. Way, way more than I would for any other race.

I think white male teenagers/twenty-somethings raped that girl.
Post Tue May 15, 2012 9:07 pm
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9263
Location: london
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line beards, men with highlights in their hair who ain't camp. wankers.

that shits for fabulous people only
Post Tue May 15, 2012 9:18 pm
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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Post Tue May 15, 2012 9:28 pm
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