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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1829
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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On the 220th anniversary of the ratification of the Bill of Rights, America has just declared war on itself.

This bill was proudly brought to you by the Democratic Party.

Rock on.
Post Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:35 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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And thus, we begin the age where dissent is synonymous with terrorism!

OUT OF THE COMPUTER AGE AND INTO THE AGE OF TERROR!
Post Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:02 am
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 903
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Good write up from Greenwald.

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/16/three_myths_about_the_detention_bill/singleton/
Post Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:30 am
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Sage Francis
Self Fighteous


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21596
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This is fucking sick.
Post Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:13 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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shit is even worse in israel. they've passed a law which allows you to sue anyone who advocates for a boycott of the country, which includes boycotts against the settlements. that means if you write an article that says "we should boycott the illegal settlements" someone living in a settlement can sue for damages incurred by that call. since it's not a criminal case, the burden of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt (or the hebrew equivalent). that means that unless you're sitting on a lot of cash and you're itching for a court battle, you can't afford to call for a boycott.

they're also limiting the foreign funding ngo's can get. this is because many of the ngo's that focus on human rights (read: palestinian rights) are funded by the EU and US. (in the US, foreign funding is not limited, but it has to be transparent.)

they're just a few years ahead of us on this slow slide towards fascism.

funny enough, they're training us in the techniques needed to suppress a restive population:

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/occupation-%E2%80%9Coccupy%E2%80%9D-israelification-american-domestic-security

politicians like to repeat the mantra that the US and israel are best friends. but we're more like two addicts stuck on militarism and (neo)colonialism looking to one another for proof that we're not so bad, we need to do this, it's for our own security...
Post Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:10 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1829
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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Bradley Manning's trial just started.

Can one of the lawyers here tell me if they can use this bill that was just voted on, on cases that were in motion but hadn't hit trial yet?

He's charged with aiding the enemy among other things.
Post Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:13 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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i don't think you can retroactively apply laws.

i do think manning should be found guilty. you can't have people releasing state secrets willy nilly. i do think he did the right thing... but how can you legally discriminate between state secrets that should be released and those that shouldn't? this is one of those difficult situations where you need to apply the same standard to everyone and hope that those who realize that they have to buck the system do so with the knowledge that they might pay the price.

he fucked up big time buy discussing the leaks over irc.

also i think how he's been treated in prison falls under cruel and unusual punishment. there's no need for what they've done to him.

what really bothers me is that they've threatened people like assange. that's not how the law works. you can prosecute the leak but not the journalist. that best maintains the balance between security and a free press.

/drunken political rant
Post Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:49 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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crash wrote:
but how can you legally discriminate between state secrets that should be released and those that shouldn't? this is one of those difficult situations where you need to apply the same standard to everyone and hope that those who realize that they have to buck the system do so with the knowledge that they might pay the price.


In this case, that was a state secret that SHOULD be released; therefore, Manning did something good and should not be punished. In fact, its acts such as this that are making America less safe as it paints a very ugly picture of the country and would do nothing but motivate people who want revenge. By punishing him for this they are making it known that you don't blab about corruption or you will pay the price. It is setting the standard for more crimes such as this.

And Law shouldn't be so black/white, exceptions have to be made. When mistakes or acts of corruption are performed by the state, people should be held accountable for their actions. Bradley Manning should be rewarded not punished. Life in jail .... damn. My heart goes out to him.
Post Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:04 am
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empti



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 132
Location: everywhere you want to be
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crash wrote:
i don't think you can retroactively apply laws.



Not trying to start an argument or get off topic but they can and have retroactively applied laws. They've done so to a few of my close friends.
Bush had passed a law, sometime around the end of his first term, or beginning of his second, which stated that any NON US citizen, living in the US, convicted of a felony will be deported.

I have a few friends who'd been living in the US since age 1-2, who came from Cambodia as political refugees/permanent residents, who qualified for citizenship but always assumed they were citizens because this country is all they knew. A few of them had troubled pasts as teens, gang stuff and whatnot, and had since turned their lives around.

In the months following the passage and implementation of this law, my aforementioned friends were round up in the middle of the night, arrested, shipped to some federal detention center in Nevada(they were living in and around Long Beach, CA btw) held without council or trial for months, then randomly whisked away to a country they have no recollection of ever being in.

They are all still there, thousands of miles from the families, wives and kids they left back home in the US...waiting for nothing.

Long story short, yes, laws can be applied retroactively.
Post Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:48 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1829
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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Fuck everything about that.
Post Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:01 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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In semi-related news, Obama wants to delay the XL Pipeline vote until after the elections. I wonder why...
Post Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:28 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1829
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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The motherfucker signed it.
Post Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:47 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19373
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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I know a lot of those tea party people would probably rape me with a knife if they could--BUT--we need those tea party fucks now. We need a party that is going to get in there and just dismantle everything. Just so we can get our civil rights back.

It makes me want to puke.
Post Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:37 pm
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adic



Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 727
Location: SJC
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The most concerning part about this to me is how quietly this has all gone down with near unanimous support in congress...
Post Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:23 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19373
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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I don't know how quietly it's gone down, so much as how effectively any dissent has been completely ignored and silenced.

Stage two of this is to declare the OWS movement a terrorist movement, like the British did. They can probably start moving the people they pick up into those camps they set up during I think the bush administration that the tinfoil hat crew was going nuts about.

It's crazy how utterly validated every conspiracy theory of the last 20 years is becoming.
Post Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:52 am
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