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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5453
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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i can't tell if rand paul is a moron or just pandering to morons. either way, he's just about the worst the senate has to offer.

on healthcare:

Quote:

With regard to the idea of whether or not you have a right to health care, you have to realize what that implies. It is not an abstraction. I am a physician, that means you have a right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery. It means that you are going to enslave not only me but the janitor at my hospital, the person who cleans my office, the assistants who work in my office, the nurses. If you have a right to their services basically once you imply a belief and a right to someone's services, do you have a right to plumbing, do you have a right to water, do you have a right to food, you are basically saying that you believe in slavery. You are saying you believe in taking and extracting from another person. Our founding documents were very clear about this. You have a right to pursue happiness, but there is no guarantee of physical comfort, there is no guarantee of concrete items. In order to give something concrete or someone's service, you have got to take it from someone. So there is an implied threat of force. If I am a physician in your community and you say you have a right to health care, do you have a right to beat down my door with the police, escort me away and force me to take care of you? That is ultimately what the right to health care would be. If you believe in a right to health care you are believing in basically the use of force to conscript someone to do your bidding.


on freedom of speech:

Quote:

I’m not for profiling people on the color of their skin, or on their religion, but I would take into account where they’ve been traveling and perhaps, you might have to indirectly take into account whether or not they’ve been going to radical political speeches by religious leaders. It wouldn’t be that they are Islamic. But if someone is attending speeches from someone who is promoting the violent overthrow of our government, that’s really an offense that we should be going after — they should be deported or put in prison.
Post Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:03 pm
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3flip



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 2201
Location: Minneapolis
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Im curious where you took that freedom of speech quote? There has been no one more vocal about the injustice of holding citizens and war criminals alike indefinitely without charges being given. I can hardly believe this is the worst the senate has to offer. Who is he pandering too again?

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Post Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:09 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5453
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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he said it on a radio show:
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/05/31/232182/rand-paul-criminalize-speech/

http://www.randpaul2010.com/2009/11/rand-paul-try-convict-and-lock-up-terrorists-in-guantanamo/

Quote:

Foreign terrorists do not deserve the protections of our Constitution


he's pandering to the tea party. the people who occasionally temper standard republican tropes with a dose of libertarianism, which is often rooted in some paranoid fantasy of world government or the like.

watch this guy in a hearing or a mark-up. he's not very bright. with witnesses he usually has a follow up question prepared but he doesn't engage in actual conversation. it's obvious that he's uncomfortable with that sort of extemporaneous interaction. i've seen him end his Q+A with haering witnesses before he used up all his time on more than one occasion. it's extremely rare for a senator to not use up all his time. they love to talk. i honestly think that paul just doesn't know what to say.

in an ESEA mark up this summer he offered an amendment but let senator burr argue on it's behalf once he had introduced it. i don't think he was comfortable going toe to toe on the topic. that's also something i've never seen a senator do.
Post Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:03 pm
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3flip



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 2201
Location: Minneapolis
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regarding this topic specifically, republicans (including a large section of the tea party) have the exact opposite complaint of rand. My point is, him speaking up as one of two republicans in the senate regarding this bill is not making him any more friends on his own team. It annoys me when hate is brought on to this dude when he does something good and when the obama administration assassinates an american citizen and his 16 year old son everyone keeps their mouths shut.
Post Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:00 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1772
Location: Barter Town
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Most keep their mouths shut on Obama about everything.
Post Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:35 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1772
Location: Barter Town
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Didn't we employ "Al Qaeda" in Libya?

You know the guys who apparently raped Ghadaffi with a bayonet?

Those are our guys bro!

Right?

Post Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:51 pm
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9208
Location: london
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yes yes, big fan of joe rogan podcast. joey diaz is the man
Post Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:09 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1772
Location: Barter Town
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So i'm watching this...



'if you are accused of plotting to attack America you MUST be detained & handed over to the military.'

??

Trolling just got real.
Post Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:39 pm
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desert penguin



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1104
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Plum Puddin' wrote:
Most keep their mouths shut on Obama about everything.


"The President is half-black, so in hip hop I can only half-criticize." - bigsole

In general, most people are much more comfortable being labeled a hypocrite instead of a racist.
Post Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:02 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
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Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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@flip I’m not going hate on him for taking the occasionally unpopular stand. I do hate on him for being worse than your average Republican on economic issues. Of course liberals are going to go easy on Obama, but hypocrisy from the left doesn’t make Paul’s record on things like healthcare and mountain top removal less horrible.

@plum No, no, and no.

We didn’t employ al-Qaida. We did support a revolution that the jihadists also supported. I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention, but al-Qaida has voiced support for every Sunni-based uprising so far, including Syria, Egypt, and Yemen. Does their support discredit these revolutions? Not in the least.

The guys who caught Gaddafi were from Misrata. I haven’t seen any claims anywhere that said they have ties to al-Qaida.

Our “guys” in Libya are the liberals, like Jibril, who was educated in the US and pursued neoliberal economic policies under Gaddafi, and Haftar, who lived in the US for 20 years and has ties with the CIA. These guys are in direct conflict with Islamisists like Belhaj, who fought in Afghanistan with the Taliban and was tortured by the CIA.
Post Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:57 am
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
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So we didn't employ them we just supported the same team?

And armed that team and blew up the other team?

Makes sense.
Post Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:00 pm
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adic



Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 727
Location: SJC
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crash wrote:
this isn't a conspiracy, it's out in the open.


Agreed... this isn't about Rand Paul either...

The fact that congress would even pass this bill in infuriating...

"If Obama does one thing for the remainder of his presidency let it be a veto of the National Defense Authorization Act – a law recently passed by the Senate currently which would place domestic terror investigations and interrogations into the hands of the military and which would open the door for trial-free, indefinite detention of anyone, including American citizens, so long as the government calls them terrorists.

So much for innocent until proven guilty. So much for limited government. What Americans are now facing is quite literally the end of the line. We will either uphold the freedoms baked into our Constitutional Republic, or we will scrap the entire project in the name of security as we wage, endlessly, this futile, costly, and ultimately self-defeating War on Terror"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/12/05/the-national-defense-authorization-act-is-the-greatest-threat-to-civil-liberties-americans-face/
Post Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:38 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5453
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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Plum Puddin' wrote:
So we didn't employ them we just supported the same team?

And armed that team and blew up the other team?

Makes sense.

plum, i can't help but notice that you never miss an opportunity to explain complex dynamics in a drastically oversimplified way, often to an extent which makes your analysis completely meaningless.

i don't get it.
Post Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:51 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
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Location: Barter Town
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I'm a simple man, Crash.

I <3 U.
Post Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:41 pm
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empti



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 115
Location: everywhere you want to be
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Obama not only retracted his threat to veto but also endorsed the bill mere moments before it went for a vote in the house last night, where it passed, 283 to 136.
It goes to the Senate today where an earlier version of the legislation passed something like 93-7.
Shit is bonkers.
Post Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:48 am
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