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Jesse Custer



Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1258
Location: London
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gaddafi looks an awful lot like Superfly Jimmy Snuka.

Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:55 am
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11245
Location: MN
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crash wrote:


I think itís short sighted to focus on the selfish intentions of intervention....


...Frankly, this sort of thinking strikes me as quite patronizing, as if the Libyans donít know whatís going on. They rose up on their own. They took over half the country on their own. They got pushed back by a superior military and they asked for outside help. With assistance from the air and a handful of advisors on the ground, they held their ground and eventually captured the rest of Libya. And all the left can see is the dark hand of the CIA and NATO? This obsession with our involvement denies the agency of the Libyans themselves Ė as if they are simply ignorant little pawns in our game.


As Cuba was to Russia, asking for outside assistance during the revolution will make you bitches to your not so benevolent benefactors, and viewed as not having the critical mass to actually storm the capital (not a democratic majority)

crash wrote:

funny thing is, most of the condemnations of the intervention i've seen are coming from people with no expertise in the region. they mostly come from a leftist perspective and tend to oppose whatever the US and western governments support.



Why don't you just scream "dirty hippies!" and get it over with?
Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:50 am
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Asterax



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 1883
Location: Maine
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Dan Shay wrote:
crash wrote:


I think itís short sighted to focus on the selfish intentions of intervention....


...Frankly, this sort of thinking strikes me as quite patronizing, as if the Libyans donít know whatís going on. They rose up on their own. They took over half the country on their own. They got pushed back by a superior military and they asked for outside help. With assistance from the air and a handful of advisors on the ground, they held their ground and eventually captured the rest of Libya. And all the left can see is the dark hand of the CIA and NATO? This obsession with our involvement denies the agency of the Libyans themselves Ė as if they are simply ignorant little pawns in our game.


As Cuba was to Russia, asking for outside assistance during the revolution will make you bitches to your not so benevolent benefactors, and viewed as not having the critical mass to actually storm the capital (not a democratic majority)


How did the Soviet Union assist Cuban Revolutionaries during the '59 revolution? Are you just referring to Soviet assistance in Cuba over the past five decades instead?

Also due to Cuba's relative size and lack of access to certain industries, it has always needed a larger economy for trade purposes. It will always be subservient to a larger economy.
Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:33 pm
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Windom



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 721
Location: Manchester, UK.
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Nicely balanced interview with Gilbert Achar on the Libyan situation:
http://www.zcommunications.org/after-gaddafi-by-gilbert-achcar
Post Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:35 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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thank's for the link, windom. that guy knows what he's talking about.

i have to disagree with him about arming the rebels. the downsides to NATO's interference are far less than the problems associated with giving heavy weaponry to a bunch of mostly untrained rebels. the bombing campaign was remarkably accurate, as evidenced by gaddafi's failure to show the western media evidence of substantial civilian causalities. i think that heavily armed rebels would have made things far more bloody.
Post Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:08 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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http://www.npr.org/2011/09/12/140400407/arab-spring-blooms-on-libyan-radio


Quote:

The fall of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi has brought about a dramatic change on the radio dial in Tripoli, the Libyan capital.

In the past, Libyans could only tune in to the government stations. Foreign broadcast signals were blocked. And what the state-run stations offered was tightly controlled and laden with pro-Gadhafi propaganda.

Now, the airwaves that used to only carry four state-run stations ó broadcasting only in Libyan Arabic as a mouthpiece for the Gadhafi regime ó are filled with broadcasts from across the Mediterranean and neighboring Tunisia.

There's news from Radio France International. Announcers yell in Italian. A station in Tunisian Arabic can be heard. Shakira is singing in Spanish and English.

In the past, the government jammed all these broadcasts.

Rebels have taken over the main national radio station, which used to be called Al-Libiyah, and renamed it Radio Libya.

Ahmed Mustafa Sharif spent his career working as a logistics manager for a European oil company. After the rebels seized Tripoli three weeks ago, the 46-year-old became the assistant manager of Radio Libya.

We were waiting for this moment, where we could actually speak to the world and tell them how we feel.
- Fuad Ramadan, a Libyan musician who had to meet secretly with friends to practice English and write music
On a recent day, he walks through the main studio, which is hosting a call-in show. Much of the talk is upbeat about the ouster of Gadhafi, but some people also call in to complain about the lack of water and other supplies in the capital.

But even complaining is something new. Sharif says people didn't call in to complain or criticize under the old regime.

Down the hall, four young musicians from Tripoli are being interviewed. It's the first time they've ever been invited to perform on the radio.

In the control room for the broadcast studio, tears well up in Sharif's eyes as he listens to the young men singing in Arabic, English and French.

"I'm going to be cry, you know. This is first time we feel the free in Libya," he says.

Sharif says Gadhafi kept Libyans in a big jail for four decades.

"You cannot move free. You cannot say anything on the radio. Now they are working free. We can put English singers, Arab singers, any singers ... in the radio, but before no," Sharif says. "Also, [Gadhafi] didn't like anybody to be star. Just for him ó this country just for him."

Fuad Ramadan, who was playing guitar in the studio, says that until three weeks ago, he could have been arrested for performing most of his songs in public. He says he used to get together secretly with a group of friends to practice English and write music.

"We used to go and gather at Hamed's place," he says. "We used to go there without telling anybody, of course. Anybody could tell on you, and you could go beyond the sun. So, we used to gather, we used to make songs, we used to write together. And we were waiting for this moment, where we could actually speak to the world and tell them how we feel."
Post Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:36 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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good article from the london review of books.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n18/rory-stewart/because-we-werent-there

and a map to help keep track of the arab spring:

Post Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:19 pm
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Jesse Custer



Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 1258
Location: London
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Gadhafi got got.. they think. Breaking news being confirmed soon; apparently Al Arabiya have been given permission to photograph the body.
Post Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:31 am
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icarus502
kung-pwn master


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 11291
Location: ann arbor
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He dead. I seent the pictures.
Post Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:55 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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it's beginning to look like they captured them then killed him.
Post Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:59 pm
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AdamBomb



Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 3183
Location: Louisiana
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Yeeesh, talk about a tough crowd.
Post Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:45 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1831
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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I feel safer already.
Post Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:22 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19373
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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So that's done. Iran next, now right?
Post Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:41 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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futuristxen wrote:
So that's done. Iran next, now right?


I dunno those "Child Butchers" seem to be a hot item. Iran gets a free pass this month for letting themean's stupid hiker friends out.
Post Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:36 am
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 2437
Location: Son Quest
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Ha Those hiker dudes got straight kidnapped for ransom.
That was like a couple skinny guys walking around with Jordans in South LA circa the late 80's. Rich people forget that bad things can happen to them.

Guys' mouths must have been watering upon spotting them shambling around like dummies at the border region.
Post Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:19 am
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