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Educate Yourself: Waiters, waitresses, restaurants, etc.
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7630
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in the near future we wont eat food

we will install a program on our computers to download nutrients from "the cloud"

they will then wirelessly fill empty capsules

we will consume pills and vitamins only
Post Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:54 pm
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FranktheP



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 1362
Location: East Coast, Fuck You!
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About 4 years ago I was out with the family, had a few beers and the buzz must have affected my math because I accidently tipped the waitress about 75 cents. When she came to get the bill, I handed to her and she asked if I needed change and I said no (not realizing my mistake). She brought it back to me anyways and left the 75 cent in there and gave me a look. I realized what I did, left an appropriate tip and now whenever I tip I am paranoid that I am doing it wrong. I always go 20% so the math is easier and its still a headache. I should not get angina trying to figure a tip. I agree with whoever said just add it to my bill and let me pay one price and go home.
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:02 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6279
Location: airstrip one
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One of my friends can't do math and I always have to tip for him. He'll tip like $2 on a $30 meal and say "that's almost 10% right".

I have told the story here but one time I have left a ripped up dollar bill as a tip, that was the only time I haven't given tip for service even if it was bad. This was really bad I mean like the entire restaurant was empty except for 1 other table, messed up meals, sat around for 30 minutes waiting for dessert that never came, like flat out neglect, etc. etc.
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:27 am
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Charlie Foxtrot



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1379
Location: Rochester, NY
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For people having trouble figuring out the math on the tip:

1. Take out cellphone
2. Multiply total of bill by .2 for 20% or .15 for 15%
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:07 am
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Klone



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 383
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or, with no cellphone for 20%:

move the decimal one spot to the left and double that number.

60.00 --> 6.00 x 2 = 12.

math is fun
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:33 am
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: Son Quest
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HUUUUH?
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:53 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8423
Location: Third Coast
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People that can't figure out the tip percentage drive me crazy too Raoul.
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:55 am
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AdamBomb



Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 3174
Location: Louisiana
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Klone wrote:
or, with no cellphone for 20%:

move the decimal one spot to the left and double that number.

60.00 --> 6.00 x 2 = 12.

math is fun


Two spots. But yeah..thats how I do.

$78.12 --> $7.81 x 2 = $15.62

Easiest thing if you have a cell phone is to multiply total by 1.2 to get the total plus 20% all in one step. Or Total X 1.15 if you want to add 15%. Even the most rudimentary cell phone has a calculator on it. No need to get anxiety.
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:57 am
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english bob



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 840
Location: england, uk
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jakethesnake wrote:
One of my friends can't do math and I always have to tip for him. He'll tip like $2 on a $30 meal and say "that's almost 10% right".

to be fair, that is almost 10%.. :)

not knowing how much to tip is a poor excuse for tipping badly btw.
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:59 am
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Elorza



Joined: 18 Sep 2002
Posts: 1003
Location: east coast
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Also, almost every single cell phone I've encountered for a number of years now have tip calculators. The more you know.
Post Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:53 pm
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erich



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 3046
Re: Educate Yourself: Waiters, waitresses, restaurants, etc.  Reply with quote  

AdamBomb wrote:
erich wrote:
AdamBomb wrote:
that is how its done if you have a crumb of class.


exactly. tipping preserves a form of classicism. there's no reason that everyone in the service industry shouldn't earn a reasonable hourly wage without tipping. it's an archaic practice.


You don't to have be rich to be classy. It means having manners. Don't get the terms twisted just because they have the same root word. Also, most waiters I know are also good tippers (even when they are on tough times).

We are not going to change the system, whether you like how it is set up or not. Our culture has created this as a social norm and its only archaic when it isn't used any more (which it is). So, being a cheap-ass as a form of protest is something I'm not buying.

For anti-tip-system folks, here are some things to think about. Restaurants do not operate on a huge profit margin. To pay the employees 20% more (or in LA from $2.13 to whatever), that cost is going to be added to the food (now with extra tax). And now the employee has no cause to "go the extra mile" because they get the same wage regardless. For me, I go to a restaurant because I don't feel like cooking that night and I enjoy the atmosphere and the service. If you take away the service, it will really motivate me to just cook that night instead. In summation, if Im gonna pay the same additional 20%, I'd rather the incentive element be in place.


i'm not talking about un-tipping as a form of protest, im just saying the whole thing is fucked to begin with, and wait staff would have an easier time counteracting that than explaining to customers why they should play along with the weird ass rules. i'm saying, just decide on a decent wage and incorporate that into the price so that i dont have to get tangled up in the equation. i dont get the argument that it would make it more expensive, what's the difference between expecting people to pay 20% more on the honor system, and actually just incorporating that into the price?

why the fuck do i need a waiter to "go the extra mile?" what the hell does that even mean? all i need is someone to bring the food from the kitchen without dropping it or spitting in it. i don't need anyone to dazzle me with service so that i feel better about not cooking for myself. you don't have to be rich, you just have to have enough money to exert control over people in a subordinate position to you. class.
Post Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:00 pm
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AdamBomb



Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 3174
Location: Louisiana
Re: Educate Yourself: Waiters, waitresses, restaurants, etc.  Reply with quote  

erich wrote:
AdamBomb wrote:
erich wrote:
AdamBomb wrote:
that is how its done if you have a crumb of class.


exactly. tipping preserves a form of classicism. there's no reason that everyone in the service industry shouldn't earn a reasonable hourly wage without tipping. it's an archaic practice.


You don't to have be rich to be classy. It means having manners. Don't get the terms twisted just because they have the same root word. Also, most waiters I know are also good tippers (even when they are on tough times).

We are not going to change the system, whether you like how it is set up or not. Our culture has created this as a social norm and its only archaic when it isn't used any more (which it is). So, being a cheap-ass as a form of protest is something I'm not buying.

For anti-tip-system folks, here are some things to think about. Restaurants do not operate on a huge profit margin. To pay the employees 20% more (or in LA from $2.13 to whatever), that cost is going to be added to the food (now with extra tax). And now the employee has no cause to "go the extra mile" because they get the same wage regardless. For me, I go to a restaurant because I don't feel like cooking that night and I enjoy the atmosphere and the service. If you take away the service, it will really motivate me to just cook that night instead. In summation, if Im gonna pay the same additional 20%, I'd rather the incentive element be in place.


i'm not talking about un-tipping as a form of protest, im just saying the whole thing is fucked to begin with, and wait staff would have an easier time counteracting that than explaining to customers why they should play along with the weird ass rules. i'm saying, just decide on a decent wage and incorporate that into the price so that i dont have to get tangled up in the equation. i dont get the argument that it would make it more expensive, what's the difference between expecting people to pay 20% more on the honor system, and actually just incorporating that into the price?

why the fuck do i need a waiter to "go the extra mile?" what the hell does that even mean? all i need is someone to bring the food from the kitchen without dropping it or spitting in it. i don't need anyone to dazzle me with service so that i feel better about not cooking for myself. you don't have to be rich, you just have to have enough money to exert control over people in a subordinate position to you. class.


To me, I don't think of going to a restaurant as a master/servant relationship. At home, you cook, serve yourself, and wash the dishes. "Going out" is a treat and an escape from that at the expense of costing a lot more than DIY. I can make good food on my own, so going out is more to me than just a way to eat for the night. I don't get kicks out of having a servant, I just enjoy having a meal without the hassle every once in a while. People respond to incentives and a waiter will be happy as long as they treated with respect and tipped well when they work hard. My beef is with people that "don't get it" and don't hold up their end of the bargain.

I don't see how people can't understand that going to a restaurant is all about the service. Why wouldn't you just wait in a line and pick up your plate from the cook at the kitchen? Just fire all the waiters.

Really, restaurants are some of the last places where you can actually get good service (because not many other places have positive incentives). If everyone got the same wage, with no hope of a tip, it is obvious that the service would suffer big time, even if over the course of a week it turned out to be the same amount of money.

Increasingly, people don't have respect for customs, even on their own soil. Just because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to understand it and act accordingly.
Post Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:43 pm
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b. dolan
FBI agent


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 5694
Re: Educate Yourself: Waiters, waitresses, restaurants, etc.  Reply with quote  

erich wrote:
For anti-tip-system folks, here are some things to think about. Restaurants do not operate on a huge profit margin. To pay the employees 20% more (or in LA from $2.13 to whatever), that cost is going to be added to the food (now with extra tax).


What I'm saying is 'that's fine'. I expect that to happen. When I buy bread, the supermarket doesn't undercharge me and expect me to knowingly make up the difference so they can turn a profit and keep the grocery store open.

They raise the price of the bread so that when I pay it, they recoup their cost and make a profit.


erich wrote:
And now the employee has no cause to "go the extra mile" because they get the same wage regardless.


this confuses me. and yeah, i don't want an extra mile. i just want someone to bring the food and not spit in it, as erich said. people who are paid well tend to do a good job if they like and want to keep their job, no? otherwise maybe they get fired if they don't do their job well...

if you mean 'it removes the incentive for them to kiss your ass if they think you have enough money/likelihood of tipping them well' then i'm fine with that aspect being removed. i hate the feeling of someone being nice to me because they're fishing for a bigger tip. it's a fake nice that doesn't give me any pleasure or enhance my experience any.

also, i was a doorman and worked for tips at one time. i hated the whole awkwardness on the other side of it too. i felt like i couldn't be nice to anyone because they'd think i was fishing for a tip... it became the larry david elephant in the elevator.


erich wrote:
For me, I go to a restaurant because I don't feel like cooking that night and I enjoy the atmosphere and the service. If you take away the service, it will really motivate me to just cook that night instead. In summation, if Im gonna pay the same additional 20%, I'd rather the incentive element be in place.


just because that incentive has traditionally come through tips doesn't mean it would disappear if tips did.

you go to the doctor because he's good at what he does, even though you don't tip him. his fee is his fee and he sinks or swims based on how well he does his job everyday anyway.

the job of a restaurant and wait staff is to provide all of the things you like about eating at a restaurant. i don't see how changing the payment system would affect that.

and yes, i know this is now a hypothetical debate about something that will never happen.
Post Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:52 pm
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AdamBomb



Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 3174
Location: Louisiana
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I just like the concept of positive incentive. Getting to keep your job is the opposite of that. Bonuses, promotion, pay raise = all positive incentive. As a waiter, there aren't these types of incentives available.

I'm not looking for "fake nice", either. But how about slightly nice vs. "here's your fuckin food, now leave me alone while I go play with my iphone".
Post Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:22 pm
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erich



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 3046
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just to be clear, for the record, those aren't my quotes in B's reply.

it's also interesting to me that the "positive incentive for doing a good job" is the same argument used to defend ridiculously overpaid benefactors of the "free market." like, "CEOs need a bonus of $XXX,XXX,XXX dollars, otherwise why would they do their job?!!?"
Post Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:26 pm
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