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Educate Yourself: Waiters, waitresses, restaurants, etc.
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 2437
Location: Son Quest
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Sarcastro wrote:
honestly, fuck you. I tip well, and I'll almost always give at least 15% to even mediocre service, but fuck you for expecting such things. There is a shit ton of waiters and waitresses that straight up suck and when you suck at your job you don't deserve a nickel more than is listed on the final bill.

if you get paid $2.13 that's your fuckin problem, take it up with management or go get another job, the people that showed up to the restaurant aren't there to pay your wage.


Are you poor or some shit? What's your deal?

Do read a lot of Ayn Rand?
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:20 am
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2007
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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I'm interested in hearing what people think about tipping with cash versus credit cards. For a long time I had heard that cash tips are the way to go because they aren't taxed unless the server claims them, where credit card tips are taken out automatically. So I would pay by credit card but tip in cash, even on things like delivery orders.

However I learned in the last year or so that some restaurants use claimed tip percentage to rank their servers, and that in these places, servers with higher claimed tip percentages are given more tables, more shifts, better shifts, etc. I also recently even heard that in some restaurants servers claim more cash tips than they actually received, figuring the extra taxes they pay on those tips are worth it for the higher income they will receive later on as a result of getting more shifts and more tables per shift. Plus in some bar situations with multiple bartenders on duty, bartenders are supposed to pool and split their tips; in these cases a large cash tip can be a temptation to one bartender to pocket something instead of sharing with the others. Same thing at restaurants like Fogo de Chao where the whole staff restaurant-wide apparently pool their tips and as a result you don't have one primary server per table.

So, at certain restaurants that I've been told are run this way, I've mostly stopped doing cash tips in favor of credit card tips, figuring it's the best way to be sure I'm being fair to everyone involved. But when I'm at new places I'm not really comfortable asking those kinds of questions. How prevalent are those kinds of practices?
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:50 am
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Flossin



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 576
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Tipping in a restaurant is pretty obvious for me. That thing about tips already being counted as part of your wage is bullshit, though. Is that standard practice in America? My girlfriend is a cook in a bistro and while she doesn't exactly make millions there, the tips are pretty damn good and they aren't made part of her wage. All the tips that the staff gets in a day are summed up by the day's end and split between them.

What isn't so obvious for me is tipping in a hotel or some place like that where you pay for the whole stay and all the services are included in it. Who should you tip? How much should you tip? Sure I'd tip the guy that takes my luggage to my room etc, though I'd have no idea how much I should give him and what's the standard for stuff like that. Turns out I'm gonna be travelling soon after all (not to Vietnam though) and this thread made me wonder.
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:22 am
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DeadAwake



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Aus.
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Being from Australia, im sure wai ters/tresses dont rely on the tipping thing, which is good cause, genuine generosity is not something which we can rely on in this day & age (unless your buying from the SFR store). The food industry is a big steaming pile of shit and i can empathise with those involved with it.

My experience with the food industry is from subway and they are only focused on quantity. I am a quality man, thus i could not serve them. If i make a sandwhich, i inject my love and suffering into it through a method of meticulousness rather than a rushed approached to produce an indifferent sandwhich. When i cleaned, i hit the hidden nooks and crannies where the other employees hid the fallen food scraps. I frequently would finish a half an hour late, due to doing things properly. Yet they would not compensate me, because my productivity was not outstanding. I.e. pumping out a large number of sandwhiches. I complained and tried to change things, opt for more equality. But of course, even when the ownership changed to a fairly common woman, she became too fixated on DA MONIES and nothing budged. Whack. Though they said the outlet wasn't very lucrative. Anyway, eff subway im glad im gone.

I digress. Due to knowing the crapiness of the fast food, from my limited experience ive tried tipping late night teenager workers that work at fast food joints. People are flabbergasted when you try to give them money as a tip. Though an ex-aquaintance pointed out that cameras watching probly has the workers on edge, reluctant to take coin with no strings attached and he is right. In retrospect i did act simalairly at subway but the biggest i really got wouldve been 1$ one time, which i did take followed by 1 or 2 20c pieces and a few 10c or 5c pieces. Id usually drop that in the register, foolishly, thinking i would get accused of stealing.

I tried tipping someone at a drive-thru with a few dollars (3-5$ i think) and they refused, but i forced it upon them, mercilessly and they buckled. Dont know if they actually took it or put it in a register. Another time i tipped a drive thru worker some shrapnel (loose coin) about 1.80 and he put it straight in the register. I than told him that my one condition was he didn't put it in the register (should have said it before handing the money) which he replied to a dumbfounded and slightly arrogant "oh". On blue moons i go to restuarants and when i do i get the takeaway option. Usually asian restuarants that over charge significantly for their food. The asian restuarants tend to be family owned and are all in cahoots. Thats my impression, probably not right all the time but definitely a good rule of thumb (where im at, anyway).

To summarize, Im happy tipping people, but i want the person to take the money for themself. Which is the conundrum here in Aus. Next time i actually go to a restaurant i must formulate a proper tipping strategy.
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:53 am
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spagucci-one



Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 484
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Looks like we got some Mr. Pinks here

Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:31 am
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7772
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Mark in Minnesota wrote:
I'm interested in hearing what people think about tipping with cash versus credit cards. For a long time I had heard that cash tips are the way to go because they aren't taxed unless the server claims them, where credit card tips are taken out automatically. So I would pay by credit card but tip in cash, even on things like delivery orders.

However I learned in the last year or so that some restaurants use claimed tip percentage to rank their servers, and that in these places, servers with higher claimed tip percentages are given more tables, more shifts, better shifts, etc. I also recently even heard that in some restaurants servers claim more cash tips than they actually received, figuring the extra taxes they pay on those tips are worth it for the higher income they will receive later on as a result of getting more shifts and more tables per shift. Plus in some bar situations with multiple bartenders on duty, bartenders are supposed to pool and split their tips; in these cases a large cash tip can be a temptation to one bartender to pocket something instead of sharing with the others. Same thing at restaurants like Fogo de Chao where the whole staff restaurant-wide apparently pool their tips and as a result you don't have one primary server per table.

So, at certain restaurants that I've been told are run this way, I've mostly stopped doing cash tips in favor of credit card tips, figuring it's the best way to be sure I'm being fair to everyone involved. But when I'm at new places I'm not really comfortable asking those kinds of questions. How prevalent are those kinds of practices?


everything you mentioned is pretty much true and dead-on

some managers/gms already know about these lil secrets and are strict about doing so , some dont give a shit, just depends , i guess depends where you work too

cash tips are ALWAYS better though
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:59 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8538
Location: Third Coast
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How well a friend tips dictates the level of friendship for me. Anything less than 20% had better be justified by a supremely shitty performance by the waitstaff. And I hate when people say something like "Well they only refilled my water once." You didn't even drink it all, fucko. Relax your brain and your ass cheeks and part with an extra dollar.
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:29 pm
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2007
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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So, I'm at the bar right now. My work cellphone rang and it was a co-worker/fellow barfly. I saw who was calling, showed the phone to my bartender, and asked if she wanted to answer it. She said yes, had a brief conversation with my co-worker, and then asked if he still wanted to talk to me. He said no, and joined me at the bar later, without talking to me in the interim.

Were tips a piece of that? Probably.
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:21 pm
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Sage Francis
Self Fighteous


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21574
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Mark in Minnesota wrote:
So, I'm at the bar right now. My work cellphone rang and it was a co-worker/fellow barfly. I saw who was calling, showed the phone to my bartender, and asked if she wanted to answer it. She said yes, had a brief conversation with my co-worker, and then asked if he still wanted to talk to me. He said no, and joined me at the bar later, without talking to me in the interim.

Were tips a piece of that? Probably.


You totally made that bartender work for her coin. *high five*
She knows you are a good tipper (if you've been there before), so it was totally in her best interest to play along with your phone game. COOL STORY, BRO!

haha. Well...hey. Hey now. See how this whole tipping thing can get philosophically messy?
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:11 pm
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Sarcastro



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3281
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hey mark, you're a good guy so here's a couple of free tips. Stop giving out 100% tips and never try to brag with that story again.
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:27 pm
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2007
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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I've been second-guessing the storytelling since I made my first post in this thread. The tips I leave aren't up for debate, though. Sorry.

*edit* I regret posting in this thread at all, really. My general perspective on this is that many service-oriented businesses are high metrics-driven, and this is especially true in tip-focused professions. My response to this has been to become a statistical outlier for certain servers I interact with, and this has overall been a positive experience for me in a number of ways that have nothing to do with job descriptions or professional expectations. I've attended birthday parties, weddings, even held newborn babies because of some of these choices. My point, such as it is, is that behaving in this way isn't just an abstract question about fair wages and social expectations. It's a personal choice with genuine impact, often positive, on the lives of all parties involved.

I don't see this as making my friend work for her tip. I don't think she sees it in those terms either.


Last edited by Mark in Minnesota on Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:43 pm
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Prontoid



Joined: 07 Aug 2002
Posts: 1609
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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DeadAwake wrote:

To summarize, Im happy tipping people, but i want the person to take the money for themself. Which is the conundrum here in Aus. Next time i actually go to a restaurant i must formulate a proper tipping strategy.


I tip Pizza boys, Taxi Drivers, Bar tenders, and at restaurants...I like that we can give tips as a bonus based on good service and magnamininity rather than worrying about paying people's actual wages like in the US..
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:17 pm
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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I think it's kind of ridiculous to jump on Mark for bragging. He told his story in this thread in the same matter-of-fact way that he tells every story. That's what Mark does.

So here's a couple of free tips. Stop giving Mark a hard time for being Mark, and don't give people arbitrary ultimatums.
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:19 pm
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Sage Francis
Self Fighteous


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21574
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Why can't we use Mark's anecdote as a reason for why this tipping business can get so messy? It's a strong example BECAUSE of how matter-of-fact he is.
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:26 pm
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lacezilla



Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 451
Location: brockton,ma
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I may be incorrect, but it is my understanding that in Europe waitstaff are paid a minimum wage. In MA waitstaff wage is like 2-3 bucks and minimum wage for other jobs 8-9 bucks. When I spent a semester in Italy many years ago they told us the people were paid a normal wage, and if service was exceptional we could tip. I think this is how it should be. I always tip 20% or more, but there have definitely been times when it was the water or waitress was not doing a good job. I work in retail, which is very service oriented, and i don't get to have bad days. I am not allowed technically to accept tips either, but none the matter I do the best I can. Perhaps one of our European posters can shed some light on the pay. I know the job market has been tough, but for the most part you have some control over your job choice. I think people taking waiting positions must be aware the potential great tips or horrible tips.
Post Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:09 pm
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