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icarus502
kung-pwn master


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Location: ann arbor
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tommi teardrop wrote:
I understand the logic of saying, "Fuck that drunk driving 'jackass' and fuck his friends that let him drive," but jesus. I don't really understand wanting to say that on every social network and curse this guy and make jackass jokes.


Yeah. People really are showing their ass. Ebert among them.

And, yeah, I mean four hours, three light beers and three shots. Not only would I probably drive home, I'd be fine. Jesus.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:34 am
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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While I'm not losing sleep over this guy's death, Ebert could have used a little more tact, I think, for the sake of decent people who love him.

I suppose a public figure known for his ace tweeting can slip on that.

And if it helps Bam cope to blow off some twitter steem, I can't blame him. Everyone deals in their own way.

But the fact this grown man died because of driving like an idiot gets a big meh from me.


Last edited by Limbs on Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:58 am
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
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Location: Northern New Jersey
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tommi teardrop wrote:
I know we like to get on our drunk driving high horse, but it is possible that he died because he was driving a Porsche like an idiot and not just because he was hammered.

If I'm at the bar for 4 hours and have 3 beers and 3 shots, I'm probly driving home as well.


You have to put the two things in context, though. First, for most people six drinks in 4 hours puts them over the limit. So unless you're a pretty big guy then you should think twice about driving after that.

Second, you cannot remove the alcohol from the equation of driving his Porsche like an idiot. Now, of course, we can't be there in the moment to know whether better reflexes would've helped the situation or if he was simply so out of control that it was over before he had a chance. Even so, there's nothing to say that the alcohol didn't influence the situation, and we can be sure that it did not help the situation.

Thus it is definitely a negative and the responsibility of the driver and the reprehension of his actions should be even more clear. If he was known to be an aggressive, heavy-footed driver then he should have known that anything more than a minuscule amount of alcohol before driving in such a manner is completely unacceptable. By minuscule I mean that he should have had tops 2 drinks in that 4 hour period, and he should have done so only after ingesting some food so that his stomach could break down the alcohol. (Again, we don't know whether he did that or not.)

The real tragedy here is that when he died doing this stupid shit he took another person with him. Maybe the passenger was complacent in the act, but in such circumstances the onus falls on the driver. People who drive like that are asking for something bad to happen. You cannot drive like that on roads not designed for it, full of other drivers not expecting it nor particularly trained to handle it. It doesn't matter how super your vehicle is. It may matter little whether you've had drinks or not. At certain speeds even the most skilled drivers will be unable to react properly to common events on public roads. Eventually it will cause an accident, and the faster and crazier you're driving the more likely that accident will kill someone. We can only be glad that when his card was pulled he didn't involve even more people.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:08 am
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icarus502
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Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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redball wrote:
tommi teardrop wrote:
I know we like to get on our drunk driving high horse, but it is possible that he died because he was driving a Porsche like an idiot and not just because he was hammered.

If I'm at the bar for 4 hours and have 3 beers and 3 shots, I'm probly driving home as well.


You have to put the two things in context, though. First, for most people six drinks in 4 hours puts them over the limit.


Maybe most people but probably not most men. But I don't even know if that's true. If you metabolize one drink/hour, you're talking about a two drink excess at that point. And it's hardly "six drinks" when three of them are fucking light beers. Jesus. And he was a big dude. If the reports are correct he was likely well under the limit.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:22 am
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redball



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Light beer has a negligible difference in alcohol content vs. standard mass-produced beer. You're talking ~4.5% ABV vs ~5.5% ABV. And at most weights more than a drink per hour puts you over the limit with modern limits. Maybe he wasn't over the limit, since he was big and we don't know any of the other factors.

However, there's over the legal limit and then there's over the limit to do 110 on a public road. The limit for the latter is significantly lower. Even under the limit alcohol impairs your judgment and reflexes.

Other things we don't know: How big the beers and shots were. The proof of the shots. Whether he had anything else to drink that night. The timing of the drinks and the amount of time after he stopped drinking before he got into the driver's seat. How his body reacts to alcohol.... lots of variables.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:26 am
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icarus502
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Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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redball wrote:
Light beer has a negligible difference in alcohol content vs. standard mass-produced beer. You're talking ~4.5% ABV vs ~5.5% ABV.

This isn't a negligible difference. And some light beers have way less that 4.5%. One of those Bud 55's or whatever is like 2.5%


Quote:



And at most weights more than a drink per hour puts you over the limit with modern limits.

It doesn't, though. Where do you get this? I don't know how you can calculate for "most weights" but I'm a very average sized man (usu. around 185). Any BAC calculator you'll find will tell you that after four hours, six drinks will have me at somewhere around .07, which is legal in most places. And I could definitely drive home safely. And Dunn had at least 40 pounds on me.


Quote:

However, there's over the legal limit and then there's over the limit to do 110 on a public road. The limit for the latter is significantly lower.


It's fucking 0! You should never go 110 on a public road. If you die in the course of such reckless behavior, it will likely be because of said reckless behavior and not because your BAC is a <.7, it's because you're doing stupid shit in the first place.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:35 am
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bbreakz



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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I think we have to equally consider that he drank more, as well as he might have only had three beers and 3 shots. You've seen the videos and shows and those guys love to party. Doesn't mean he drank and drove a lot. but its possible.

I drink and I am a big guy Add those shots to the equation and I ain't driving. Regardless of time

Famous people are under such scrutiny in life and death now with the twitter and the blogosphere. He is going to be judged by Ebert and many others during the next few weeks. Right or wrong that is what will happen. And the Jackass crew are going to hate it. Some will keep their mouths shut others won't.

In the end two people died and it sucks. And everyone knows not to drink and drive yet some of us still do it. Except for maybe a few people close to Ryan Dunn that wise up, people are still going to do it. Unfortunately its an epidemic and it doesn't seem to stop. People in Arizona where their DUIs like a badge of honor. Weird.

I have been guilty of it too. Luckily I never hurt someone or got a DUI. I still have to resist urges to do it and I hate it.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:37 am
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icarus502
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bbreakz wrote:
I think we have to equally consider that he drank more, as well as he might have only had three beers and 3 shots. You've seen the videos and shows and those guys love to party. Doesn't mean he drank and drove a lot. but its possible.

I drink and I am a big guy Add those shots to the equation and I ain't driving. Regardless of time


This is stupid. Regardless of time? Time is the most important factor! Otherwise, never ever ever drive again.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:41 am
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
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icarus502 wrote:
This isn't a negligible difference. And some light beers have way less that 4.5%. One of those Bud 55's or whatever is like 2.5%


It's a difference of a few percentage points. It'd matter more if he was shooting 100-proof shots vs. 80 proof where the swing is 10 points. However, I didn't count those newer ultralight beers because I like to live in a rosy world where they do not exist. Same with beer that has lemon or lime already mixed in. Alien.

icarus502 wrote:
It doesn't, though. Where do you get this? I don't know how you can calculate for "most weights" but I'm a very average sized man (usu. around 185). Any BAC calculator you'll find will tell you that after four hours, six drinks will have me at somewhere around .07, which is legal in most places. And I could definitely drive home safely. And Dunn had at least 40 pounds on me.



You're right. Though I don't place much faith in those BAC calculators and it's proven that we do not metabolize alcohol uniformly. But I definitely overstated that. Still, I will not drive immediately after 6 beers in 6 hours.

icarus502 wrote:

Quote:

However, there's over the legal limit and then there's over the limit to do 110 on a public road. The limit for the latter is significantly lower.


It's fucking 0! You should never go 110 on a public road. If you die in the course of such reckless behavior, it will likely be because of said reckless behavior and not because your BAC is a <.7, it's because you're doing stupid shit in the first place.


I agree with this but my whole point is that it is really indefensible to be drinking and then do this. Not that I think it would be acceptable if he hadn't been drinking. It's just that much less acceptable with alcohol involved.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:45 am
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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What the... THAT'S who this dude is everyone is tweeting their RIPs about?

Who gives a shit?

I don't mean like, he has no human value... I know why is FAMILY is sad.

And I think the idea that it's not sad if someone dies from doing something stupid is appalling. That's not what I'm saying. It makes sense to be angry at someone for driving drunk, but it doesn't make their death desirable.

But like, this dude? Who gives a shit?? Why is everyone pretending to be affected by the passing of a stranger off Jackass?? Motherfuckers have such low standards for emotions... like... oh shit... I heard of that guy and he DIED. Get me to my smartphone.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:17 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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If he was a she you'd be all over this.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:24 pm
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redball



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jakethesnake wrote:
If he was a she you'd be all over this.


If this were Snooki I think there'd be more celebration and he'd definitely come to her defense. At least the stereotype of Jesse would, if not the man himself.

Straw man up, straw man down.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:26 pm
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icarus502
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Jesse wrote:
What the... THAT'S who this dude is everyone is tweeting their RIPs about?

Who gives a shit?

I don't mean like, he has no human value... I know why is FAMILY is sad.

And I think the idea that it's not sad if someone dies from doing something stupid is appalling. That's not what I'm saying. It makes sense to be angry at someone for driving drunk, but it doesn't make their death desirable.

But like, this dude? Who gives a shit?? Why is everyone pretending to be affected by the passing of a stranger off Jackass?? Motherfuckers have such low standards for emotions... like... oh shit... I heard of that guy and he DIED. Get me to my smartphone.


I agree. My problem is with the way people talk about drunk driving, especially in America. I think people are just very stupid about it. I don't actually care about Ryan Dunn.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:27 pm
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icarus502
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Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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redball wrote:
jakethesnake wrote:
If he was a she you'd be all over this.


If this were Snooki I think there'd be more celebration and he'd definitely come to her defense. At least the stereotype of Jesse would, if not the man himself.

Straw man up, straw man down.


You're right. I imagine so, but only because if it were Snooki the reaction would actually be sexist. There's nothing particular oppressive about peoples' reactions to this (except, of course, that it amounts to a tacit support for harsher drunk driving laws,which are oppressive and might even be harmful).
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:30 pm
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JohnSchwan



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
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Jesse wrote:
What the... THAT'S who this dude is everyone is tweeting their RIPs about?

Who gives a shit?

I don't mean like, he has no human value... I know why is FAMILY is sad.

And I think the idea that it's not sad if someone dies from doing something stupid is appalling. That's not what I'm saying. It makes sense to be angry at someone for driving drunk, but it doesn't make their death desirable.

But like, this dude? Who gives a shit?? Why is everyone pretending to be affected by the passing of a stranger off Jackass?? Motherfuckers have such low standards for emotions... like... oh shit... I heard of that guy and he DIED. Get me to my smartphone.


It's the same as someone caring about their favorite musician passing away. Would you be appalled if you suddenly died and your fan-base ran to their smartphones?

You may believe you hold a moral high ground and produce something more worthy to the world than Ryan Dunn, but no one asked you to decide that for them, and many could say your opinion is shit to them.

He's a celebrity, people enjoyed him because they made him laugh, I mean if the guy makes someone laugh and alleviated some stress from their day that's worth something, even if it's based on dick and fart humor. I don't think you truly don't understand why people care, I think you're too intelligent for that, I think you mostly like to go against popular opinion to be the guy who's just so revolutionary and cool. Lighten the fuck up once in a while and just let people pay their respects.
Post Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:30 pm
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