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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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crash wrote:
so if they did this same analysis for the world, somalia would top the list, no?


Quick Google shows income and sales taxes in Somalia are relatively high, so probably not.


Quote:


http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Africa/Somalia.html

TAXATION

Direct taxes are imposed on income and profits, when officials can collect them. In 1986, tax rates on wages and salaries ranged from 0% to 18.9%. Income from trade and the professions was taxed at rates of up to 35%. Indirect taxes are imposed on imports, exports, mortgages, vehicle registration, sugar, alcohol, and a number of other goods and services. In 2003, Somolia's sales tax rate was 10%.

Read more: Somalia Overview - tax, system, power, International cooperation, Insurance, Public finance http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Africa/Somalia.html#ixzz1OcykQIsw



But yes, in the broadest sense of the word, pirates fit the "definition" of free pretty well, if that's what you were alluding to.


phataccino wrote:
"The right to pump your own gas"? That's really your fall-back? I live in one of only two (I think) states that have laws mandating that gas station employees pump gas instead of motorists. I have never once felt my rights infringed by not being able to pump my own gas. I have, however, found it to be a slight nuisance at times and a great convenience at others.


No, it's not a fallback, I just enjoy harassing New Jersey and its inhabitants to the fullest extent that I can. You are inconvenienced by your lack of freedom. When I have the unfortunate circumstance of driving through said state I am also inconvenienced by the same lack of freedom.

How about gun restrictions? Seat belts? Eminent domain? Etc. All these other things listed that I guess if you live in New Jersey you don't mind giving up these freedoms. I'm cool with that, but lets not pretend that just because you don't "use" these freedoms that you aren't denied them.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:28 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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The "right" to pump my own gas is pretty funny. It's actually a really funny law that's very pro-consumer, and in turn it encourages jobs. It isn't so great for businesses, but it's also not that bad.

Consider this: I pay less gas taxes than you do. I likely pay less per gallon than you do. Yet, I don't have to pump my gas myself.

Obviously this is a repressive regime.

The idea behind the law was kinda laughable. It is supposed to reduce emission and chemical spills by requiring that a professional man each pump. In practice, the professionals top off tanks (a no-no if you want to prevent gases from entering the atmosphere) and leave pumps unattended while filling (meaning that a poorly functioning stoppage system can lead to spills). However, in turn for this we have the lowest gas tax outside of Alaska, and it is less than half the rate of NY or PA, and only 2/3 the rate of Delaware. Those differences aren't reflected at the pump so much because the gas purveyors take them, use them to pay attendants, and take the remainder as profit.

So, ya know, you can make the argument that I am less free because I can't put fuel in my car. I can make the counter argument that this has no negative affect on my life whatsoever, in fact I'm better off for it and so is almost everyone involved. Especially when counting personal freedom.

One could also pose the question, if we're evaluating how this law affects personal freedom, how many independently owned filling stations are there in each state and what percentage of the total filling stations is this?
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:38 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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AdamBomb wrote:
redball wrote:
jakethesnake wrote:
You are forced pay for someone else's In-vitro fertilizations. What is your idea of freedom anyway?


My idea of freedom is having the option to make decisions about my family without an insurance company telling me that it's too expensive. It allows a level playing field where not only the rich are able to afford to have a child if they have fertility issues.


I don't think insurance normally covers this anyway, no? Everyone I know who has had invitro had to shell out some serious $$$


In NJ and a few other states insurance must cover a few cycles of IVF. Thus, Kevin was born.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:40 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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jakethesnake wrote:
How about gun restrictions?


What of them? I know people who own guns. They were more worried about rumors of Obama banning ammunition than anything the state requires.

jakethesnake wrote:
Seat belts?


?? I was pretty sure all states had seat belt laws. Personally, I think seat belt laws should stay as they are but I would support a single amendment: If you do not wear a seatbelt you won't be ticketed but you forfeit any and all right to sue. Do that and I'm fine. Then all the people who don't wear them can eventually Darwin out.


jakethesnake wrote:
Eminent domain?


I don't know much about this but I'm unsurprised. I think eminent domain is tricky. There's certainly some justification for it at times, but if we're really behind the norm in that area then I'd probably like to see it changed.

jakethesnake wrote:
All these other things listed that I guess if you live in New Jersey you don't mind giving up these freedoms. I'm cool with that, but lets not pretend that just because you don't "use" these freedoms that you aren't denied them.


Perhaps, but I'm also denied plenty of other freedoms. I can't indiscriminately kill people. I have to serve those blacks. I have to consider women when I hire and shit. Think about how great life would be if I could "use" these freedoms.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:48 pm
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phataccino



Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4774
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jakethesnake wrote:
No, it's not a fallback, I just enjoy harassing New Jersey and its inhabitants to the fullest extent that I can. You are inconvenienced by your lack of freedom. When I have the unfortunate circumstance of driving through said state I am also inconvenienced by the same lack of freedom.

I forgot that Redball is from New Jersey, so I didn't recognize it as a jab. Anyway, I prefer my Right to Sit in a Warm Car and Have Someone Else Pump My Gas on a Cold Rainy or Snowy Day to my Right to Pump My Own Gas.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:51 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Location: airstrip one
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One could also say that forcing gas stations to pump their own gas promotes poverty in that you are required to pay a bunch of people effectively minimum wage on top of your regular employees, which probably reduces the rate at which they are paid as well. So for your cheap gas you are contributing to a classist system designed to screw over immigrants and non-whites.

I am a guy that's nice enough to allow you to live in a landfill-masquerading-as-a-state. I could be using my freedom to dump more waste there instead of in the nice parts of the country, but like I said I'm a nice guy. I mean, think how great life would be...
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:02 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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Can I get a "fuckin' eh"?
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:08 pm
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MCGF



Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 367
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New Hampshire blows. in every way.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:10 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Location: airstrip one
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MCGF wrote:
New Hampshire blows. in every way.


I doubt you've been here, even so that was a pretty weak dis.

Anyway, redball you know what I think of jersey. However, I am genuinely glad that you do enjoy the place you live, though. I'm also glad that we both live in a place where we can have this kind of discourse and not be imprisoned, or killed, etc. and that we have the ability to move to a different state if we don't like some of the policies there.

Here's a paragraph from the conclusion of the research.


Quote:


Finally, we would stress that the variance in liberty at the state level in the United States is quite small in the global context. Even New York provides a much freer environment for the individual than the majority of countries. There are no Burmas or Zimbabwes among the American states. Still, we do find that our federal system allows states to pursue different policies in a range of important areas. The policy laboratory of federalism has been compromised by centralization but is still functioning. As Americans grow richer in future years, quality of life will matter more to residence decisions, while the imperative of decent employment will decline by comparison. As a result, we should expect more ideological “sorting” of the kind Charles Tiebout foresaw. High-quality information on state legal environments will matter a great deal to those seeking an environment friendlier to individual liberty.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:18 pm
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MCGF



Joined: 22 Feb 2010
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jakethesnake wrote:
MCGF wrote:
New Hampshire blows. in every way.


I doubt you've been here, even so that was a pretty weak dis.



A large segment of NH's population are rich people from Massachusetts who don't want to pay the taxes and act like their complete base self interest is something to be admired. Most of these people live right across the border from Massachusetts because they don't actually want to live in NH.

I knew someone who lived in New Hampshire, and he said that yeah, there are less taxes, but they charge fines on everything... to go to parks, ambulances, etc. Not sure how true that is though, I hated that guy.

NH is everything that is shitty about Vermont without the cool hippie stuff.

I live in MA. I drive through NH. I stare at the rocks on the side of the highway, and I always get depressed.

The Tilton Diner is pretty fantastic though, probably the best thing about your pathetic excuse for a state. The only state worse than NH is CN.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:48 pm
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anomaly
Loserface


Joined: 22 May 2008
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Location: DFW, TX
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what the fuck is a New Hampshire? Are those the pet rodents that smell like pine chips?
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:55 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
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Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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jakethesnake wrote:
As Americans grow richer in future years, quality of life will matter more to residence decisions, while the imperative of decent employment will decline by comparison.

which america do they live in?

of course somalia has laws. they just can't enforce them... which is sort of the same as not having regulations.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:19 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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The most I've ever paid to go to a "park" is $3 for the parking fee in the state forest. 95% of the money goes to pay the salaries of people running the food stands that people from your state come to buy from. Speaking of, people from your state spends an awful lot of time shopping and vacationing in NH. Thanks for the loot. If the rocks make you depressed you can always buy the cheap alcohol to cheer yourself up.

At least we can agree on one thing though. Connecticut sucks.
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:25 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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anomaly wrote:
what the fuck is a New Hampshire? Are those the pet rodents that smell like pine chips?


It's the one that looks like this:

Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:27 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
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Location: Northern New Jersey
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jakethesnake wrote:
One could also say that forcing gas stations to pump their own gas promotes poverty in that you are required to pay a bunch of people effectively minimum wage on top of your regular employees, which probably reduces the rate at which they are paid as well. So for your cheap gas you are contributing to a classist system designed to screw over immigrants and non-whites.


False dichotomy. How much do you think clerks at gas stations make? I can tell you that it is no more than station attendants. While I haven't worked as a station attendant, I have worked as a store clerk in Ohio at a gas station. Wasn't much better than minimum. Station attendants do not make minimum wage. There are plenty of white station attendants, though many are middle eastern in this area. They're often the owners and members of the owners community.

The way they lose out, though it's not a loss that negatively affects the community, is that most filling stations are just that: filling stations. They're often attached to garages rather than convenience stores. The convenience stores are normally separate entities around here. Which also seems to help small businesses because many convenience stores in the area are not major chains.


Quote:

I am a guy that's nice enough to allow you to live in a landfill-masquerading-as-a-state. I could be using my freedom to dump more waste there instead of in the nice parts of the country, but like I said I'm a nice guy. I mean, think how great life would be...


NJ doesn't take much waste in. We ship it out. I'll grant you that our population centers are pretty crappy, but NJ has some very nice countryside too. Come by my place sometime and I can show you a side of NJ that you're less likely to see on TV.

Then again, I live in one of the richest counties in the country. Why, we even have white gas station attendants here. [Just for good measure I like to get my gas from the middle eastern guy that runs the BP in Totowa, though.]

http://www.forbes.com/2011/04/11/americas-richest-counties-business-washington_slide_9.html
Post Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:40 pm
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