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article about Paul Haggis vs. Scientology in the New Yorker
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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OM3N



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 1297
Location: Thailand
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The phrase "wicked hard boner" shall be adopted into my daily lexicon.

Check the other vid I just posted (top of my last post), it's much more succinct and maybe even crazier.
Post Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:55 pm
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 2536
Location: TKO from Tokyo
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It makes sense though. Just speak more and don't give the opposition chance to think... That's exactly the way to defeat your ideological enemies. Seriously fuck the CoS.

It's coming. One day or another. They'll be taken down.
Post Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:11 pm
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GrantherBirdly
D&D addict


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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Just finished this article last night, shit is voluminous but well worth the read. and for a topic as rife with controversy as scientology, a write-up as thorough and carefully researched as this one is huge. not reactionary or accusatory, but still very dead-on and pointed with its criticisms.

mark isham also comes out looking like a total chump.
Post Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:50 am
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Finn



Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Boston, MA
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The article is great not because it's an exposé of a particularly powerful "cult" or "fraud," but because it's a look inside the formation of a a substantive modern religious movement. Scientology is fascinating for this reason. It's a developing modern religion which many people take very, very seriously. How often do human beings get to witness this sort of thing? Not very.

That brings me to my second point about scientology: its critics are generally misguided. I think that people save their most pointed religious contempt for scientology because of its modern feel (which makes it seem especially fictitious) and because of the allure of celebrity ridicule.

The fact of the matter is that scientology, while ridiculous, is in no way, shape, or form more ridiculous than any other organized religion. I'm sort of surprised people haven't already been making this point here. Seriously, the only thing separating scientology from Christianity is a few thousand years' worth of believers.

This is a fun article, but like I said, it's not fun because it makes fun of scientology. It's fun because it is a window into how religions are formed and perpetuated. Maybe it spreads, maybe it dies out. Either way, this is how they all start.
Post Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:08 pm
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Flossin



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
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I spent the evening reading this. Really interesting article.
Post Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:58 pm
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Bob_ptmfus



Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 743
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Finn, people have made that point in previous articles, but what distinguishes Scientology from other religions is that you have to pay to be a part of it. And other places don't have labor camps.
Post Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:02 pm
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Confidential



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2040
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Something about the article helped me understand the appeal a little. I mean, it seems like a perfect fit for atheistic hollywood types and people looking for answers. CoS starts with scientism, stuff that seems rather applicable and indeed can improve communication. Never interrupting someone - nothing wrong with that, its actually useful. The pseudoscience though is good for people that never actually took a communications class in college. The church waits until you're already in pretty deep to before they spring the madness - space ships that look like DC9s dropped some confederated aliens into some volcanos on earth. Wait- did any one think to ask why intergalactic intelligent life would so closely resemble human-based institutions and structures, like confederations, Dc9's, logos that originate in the human mind - like palm trees and stars? I'm amazed at how they go through such great lengths to keep up their charade. I mean isn't science supposed to be open to peer review, but the only people that review their information are their own experts, who they rely on to explain (lie their ass off and forge) any factual discrepancies. Then they set up this whole parallel society with a wannabe navy, work camps, etc., so that they can completely isolate themselves. Fuck scientology, I hope they go down hard. At the same time, aren't we all trapped in one cult or another?
Post Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:22 pm
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OM3N



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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Location: Thailand
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Bob_ptmfus wrote:
Finn, people have made that point in previous articles, but what distinguishes Scientology from other religions is that you have to pay to be a part of it. And other places don't have labor camps.


This. It is really quite difficult to find the dark side of Scientology for a number of reasons. Namely the fact that they have one of the most powerful legal teams in the world, making former members truly fearful to speak out.

I wouldn't be surprised if a Christian in the dark ages was denied all contact with his family due to their non-belief, but that really does not happen in modern day religions. Sadly, it is a common occurrence for family members of Scientologists who are trying to get them out to receive letters stating "If you continue attempting restricting your son/daughters religious freedom, the only recourse will be legal action". Do some research and see the parents who have received these letters. Simply put, Scientology is a money machine with some really sadistic people in power, and criticism via the media is the only thing that has had any effect upon it.
Post Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:00 pm
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Finn



Joined: 05 Jan 2011
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Location: Boston, MA
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I don't deny that Scientology has some really sadistic elements, or even that it may be relatively worse than other Western religions, but I'm not convinced that its more reasonable to go after Scientology as, say, a corporation, than it is to go after them as a religion.

Catholics slowly instill insane beliefs in people, essentially for free. Scientologists actively instill insane beliefs in people, ostensibly for large amounts of money. I'd obviously prefer if both were to disappear from the face of the earth, but for what it's worth, I actually prefer the latter from an economic point of view. I mean, which has done more damage? If you take something really bad and make it really expensive, that's a hell of a lot better than making it free.

I'm certainly not defending Scientology. I'm just very interested in the exact reasons why people see it as being as insidious as they do, as compared to other organized religions. The money thing? The Sea Org thing? The fact that this happens in America?
Post Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:56 pm
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the mean
Certified O.G.


Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 6497
Location: philly/sacto/kauai/ohio
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OM3N wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if a Christian in the dark ages was denied all contact with his family due to their non-belief, but that really does not happen in modern day religions.

...as much.

See, the Amish.
Post Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:58 pm
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badjerk



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 427
Location: pdx
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thanks for the article. havent finished the whole thing yet, but its quite good.

am i reading this correctly? did they basically extort the IRS into giving them tax-exempt status?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Church of Scientology had recently gained tax-exempt status as a religious institution, making donations, as well as the cost of auditing, tax-deductible. (Church members had lodged more than two thousand lawsuits against the Internal Revenue Service, ensnaring the agency in litigation. As part of the settlement, the church agreed to drop its legal campaign.)"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont really care what people do with their time as long as its consensual, but their tax-exempt status chaps my ass (as does this status for all religious groups). if thats how it originated, how can it not be a bigger story?


Also, how were you able to send this article? I need some articles from past issues of New Yorker, and it looks like you have to pay for access to the site. If you feel like posting a link to the December 2009 Roman Polanski article (in the same format with the whole article on one page), it would be much appreciated.
Post Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:05 pm
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OM3N



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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Location: Thailand
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Finn wrote:

I'm certainly not defending Scientology. I'm just very interested in the exact reasons why people see it as being as insidious as they do, as compared to other organized religions. The money thing? The Sea Org thing? The fact that this happens in America?


The fact that it is happening in America definitely has something to do with it. Also the fact that it is spearheaded by two extremely popular Hollywood celebs.

But to me, it's more concerning the fact that it literally shatters families, and creates a legal blackhole once their members want to to reunite with their families. I know I can't convince anyone over the internet, but some of the stories I have read of ex-members (on message boards, long since deleted) are absolutely heart breaking. I've never been one for religion, but neither have I had a strong feeling against those who practice it. IMHO Scientology is not a religion and I have a very strong disagreement with it's ideology and practice.
Post Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:29 pm
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