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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Lonely Shinobi



Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 349
Location: adelaide, AUS
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Wow mark, that is intense. I wouldn't even begin to presume you hadn't thought through the ramifications of putting that on line, which must mean the concern is real and very strong

If it helps, my step father used to be the australian equivalent of a conservative. He was flippantly racist, anti social-services, and politically closed and thoughtless. He was an alcoholic too. He was also clearly a good person. I don't think he had ever known a different way to be

But he married my mother, and was surrounded by us, and our own. No arguments of mine ever convinced him of anything, but he has changed. He still makes off colour jokes, but they are rarely racist. He supports helping the less fortunate. He believes in global warming. He has even changed which end of the spectrum he votes for.

I guess what I am saying is anyone can change. He was 40 when he met us. It took a lot of time, and having grandchildren helped, but being surrounded by caring, loving people rubs off.

My only anecdotal advice is to dial back the arguments, and spend more time together. It eventually worked for us. And I guess that just reflects your own, more eloquent thoughts
Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:59 pm
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T-Wrex
p00ny tang


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 6393
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/sovereign-citizens-jared-lee-loughner


Quote:

"No, I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver!" (3:34)

A core sovereign-citizen belief is that when the United States went off the gold standard, the government started using citizens as economic collateral—using our future earnings to secure foreign debt in a sort of giant Ponzi scheme. In this theory, you exist as a regular flesh-and-blood person, but there is also your "corporate shell" (often referred to as "the straw man"), which exists merely on paper and is created when you sign up for a Social Security card.



i remember reading something like this weeks ago on this board..
sounds like something Firefly would know something about./

what's up with Sovereign Citizens?
Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:13 pm
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OM3N



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 1297
Location: Thailand
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T-Wrex wrote:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/sovereign-citizens-jared-lee-loughner


Quote:

"No, I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver!" (3:34)

A core sovereign-citizen belief is that when the United States went off the gold standard, the government started using citizens as economic collateral—using our future earnings to secure foreign debt in a sort of giant Ponzi scheme. In this theory, you exist as a regular flesh-and-blood person, but there is also your "corporate shell" (often referred to as "the straw man"), which exists merely on paper and is created when you sign up for a Social Security card.


Any self respecting citizen should know that the gold standard was relinquished in 1933.

AND?

The recent bailouts in the past 3 years=The New Deal x 2 adjusted for inflation.

Funtimes
?
Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:20 pm
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T-Wrex
p00ny tang


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 6393
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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If I understand Ron Paul and Josh Kane correctly...
since 1971, our currency's value had doubled 13.5 times...
...with nothing to back it but a commodity market.

Maybe he's onto something..
Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:34 pm
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2000
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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Lonely Shinobi wrote:
Wow mark, that is intense. I wouldn't even begin to presume you hadn't thought through the ramifications of putting that on line, which must mean the concern is real and very strong


My personal concerns about my brother's mental state are significantly less than those of some of my family and friends. However I'm nowhere near the only person who has found themselves in this kind of situation, and I think the good of talking openly about it outweighs the potential benefits of remaining silent. This isn't the first time I've said something in the social Internet to my brother about the perception people have of him as being potentially violent, anyway. The biggest privacy ramification I thought about was airing the parts about my mother's concerns, as those might be new information to him and to people who know her.

That said, the particular shape of her concern informs my own perspective on this: we should be looking for ways to heal people like Jared Loughner before they end up in a mental place where they could consider acting out in such extreme violence, and that has to start with his family and his immediate community.
Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:36 pm
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Bring that Beat Back



Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 854
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Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:27 pm
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2000
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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Well played.
Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:40 pm
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jehu



Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 9310
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Bring that Beat Back wrote:



Yes.
Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:18 am
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Z-0



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 700
Location: Sydney
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Plum Puddin' wrote:



page 4.

thinking you could beat plum to it. for shame.
Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:59 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 2536
Location: TKO from Tokyo
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Z-0 wrote:
Plum Puddin' wrote:



page 4.

thinking you could beat plum to it. for shame.


Haha. Impossible.

Yo, Z-0 I don't think you are a part of the herd, mang. I just disagree strongly. Sorry to sound like that, buddy. :/
Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:42 am
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Z-0



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 700
Location: Sydney
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neveragainlikesheep wrote:
Z-0 wrote:
Plum Puddin' wrote:



page 4.

thinking you could beat plum to it. for shame.


Haha. Impossible.

Yo, Z-0 I don't think you are a part of the herd, mang. I just disagree strongly. Sorry to sound like that, buddy. :/


that's fine mate. i'm happy to disagree as long we both remain civil. perhaps i was overly sarcastic in my response to yours.
Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:40 am
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Bring that Beat Back



Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 854
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Should have figured. Power to the Plum. He ownz the interweb images for sho.
Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:54 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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T-Wrex wrote:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/sovereign-citizens-jared-lee-loughner


Quote:

"No, I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver!" (3:34)

A core sovereign-citizen belief is that when the United States went off the gold standard, the government started using citizens as economic collateral—using our future earnings to secure foreign debt in a sort of giant Ponzi scheme. In this theory, you exist as a regular flesh-and-blood person, but there is also your "corporate shell" (often referred to as "the straw man"), which exists merely on paper and is created when you sign up for a Social Security card.



i remember reading something like this weeks ago on this board..
sounds like something Firefly would know something about./

what's up with Sovereign Citizens?

i posted about this a while back, though i forget the thread. splc did some articles on them a few months ago.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/fall/sovereign-citizen-kane

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/fall/sovereign-citizen-kane/murdered-officer

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/fall

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/fall/the-sovereigns-leaders-of-the-movement

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/fall/sovereign-idioticon-a-dictionary-of-the
Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:34 am
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ROTTY



Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1407
Location: London
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http://www.strangefamousrecords.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49930
Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:36 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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I posted this to my blog last night, kind of interesting:


Quote:


“— July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.
— October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

— December 2008: A pair of “Patriot” movement radicals — the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted “to attack the political infrastructure” — threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

— December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

— January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

— February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

— April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

— April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

— May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

— June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

— February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one “domestic terrorism” too.)

— March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

— March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

— May 2010: A “sovereign citizen” from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

— May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

— May 2010: Two “sovereign citizens” named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

— July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

— September 2010: A Concord, N.C., man is arrested and charged with plotting to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. The man, 26-year—old Justin Carl Moose, referred to himself as the “Christian counterpart to (Osama) bin Laden” in a taped undercover meeting with a federal informant. ”

Eighteen examples of right-wing domestic terrorism detailed by freelance journalist and author David Neiwert (via Digby)

I remember many of these. But of course each one happened in its own convenient vacuum. No need for society to turn a critical eye to itself, no siree.



http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/independents-day.html
Post Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:05 pm
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