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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Windom



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 721
Location: Manchester, UK.
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This BBC documentary summed up/debunked much of the 9/11 conspiracy schtick. Good if you don't want to read pages on steel melting points from self-appointed experts.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6680224505086911340#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6680224505086911340#docid=9072062020229593250

I like George Monbiot's take on things too:


Quote:


Why do I bother with these morons? Because they are destroying the movements which some of us have spent a long time trying to build. Those of us who believe that the crucial global issues - climate change, the Iraq war, nuclear proliferation, inequality - are insufficiently debated in parliament or congress; that corporate power stands too heavily on democracy; that war criminals, cheats and liars are not being held to account, have invested our efforts in movements outside the mainstream political process. These, we are now discovering, are peculiarly susceptible to this epidemic of gibberish.

The obvious corollorary to the belief that the Bush administration is all-powerful is that the rest of us are completely powerless. In fact it seems to me that the purpose of the “9/11 truth movement” is to be powerless. The omnipotence of the Bush regime is the coward’s fantasy, an excuse for inaction used by those who don’t have the stomach to engage in real political fights.

Let me give you an example. The column I wrote about Loose Change two weeks ago generated 777 posts on Comment is Free, which is almost a record. Most of them were furious.. The response from a producer of the film, published last week, attracted 467(2). On the same day I published an article about a genuine, demonstrable conspiracy: a spy network feeding confidential information from an arms control campaign to Britain’s biggest weapons manufacturer, BAE. It drew 60 responses(3). The members of the 9/11 cult weren’t interested. If they were, they might have had to do something. The great virtue of a fake conspiracy is that it calls on you to do nothing.

The 9/11 conspiracy theories are a displacement activity. A displacement activity is something you do because you feel incapable of doing what you ought to do. A squirrel sees a larger squirrel stealing its hoard of nuts. Instead of attacking its rival, it sinks its teeth into a tree and starts ripping it to pieces. Faced with the mountainous challenge of the real issues we must confront, the chickens in the “truth” movement focus instead on a fairytale, knowing that nothing they do or say will count, knowing that because the perpetrators don’t exist, they can’t fight back. They demonstrate their courage by repeatedly bayoneting a scarecrow.

Many of those who posted responses on Comment is Free contend that Loose Change (which was neatly demolished in the BBC’s film The Conspiracy Files on Sunday night) is a poor representation of the conspiracists’ case. They urge us instead to visit websites like 911truth.org, physics911.net and 911scholars.org, and to read articles by the theology professor David Ray Griffin and the physicist Steven E. Jones. Concerned that I might have missed something, I have now done all those things, and have come across exactly the same concatenation of ill-attested nonsense as I saw in Loose Change. In all these cases you will find wild supposition raised to the status of incontrovertible fact; rumour and confusion transformed into evidence; selective editing; the citation of fake experts; the dismissal of real ones. Doubtless I will now be told that these are not the true believers: I will need to dive into another vat of tripe to get to the heart of the conspiracy.

The 9/11 truthers remind me of nothing so much as the climate-change deniers, cherry-picking their evidence, seizing any excuse for ignoring the arguments of their opponents. Witness the respondents to my Loose Change column who maintain that the magazine Popular Mechanics, which has ripped the demolition theories apart, is a government front. They know this because one of its editors, Benjamin Chertoff, is the brother/nephew/first cousin of the US Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. (They are, as far as Benjamin can discover, unrelated, but what does he know?(4)).


http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/02/20/bayoneting-a-scarecrow/
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:45 am
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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Windom wrote:
Good if you don't want to read pages on steel melting points from self-appointed experts.


While reading pages on such material is understandably boring to most people, you hardly need to be a "self-appointed expert" to understand or write them. All you need is a sound grasp on well-understood physical principles, the ability to correctly manipulate the math that drives these principles, and access to the sort of commonly accepted chart or list of event points that any materials engineer uses in their day-to-day job.

Properly conducted science doesn't rest on the basis of self-proclaimed expertise, it relies on a basic grasp of the tools of mathematical and observational discovery and interpretation.
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:35 am
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zagadka
DARK PAST HAVER


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 4932
Location: Hous of Gaga
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breakreep wrote:
Windom wrote:
Good if you don't want to read pages on steel melting points from self-appointed experts.


While reading pages on such material is understandably boring to most people, you hardly need to be a "self-appointed expert" to understand or write them. All you need is a sound grasp on well-understood physical principles, the ability to correctly manipulate the math that drives these principles, and access to the sort of commonly accepted chart or list of event points that any materials engineer uses in their day-to-day job.

Properly conducted science doesn't rest on the basis of self-proclaimed expertise, it relies on a basic grasp of the tools of mathematical and observational discovery and interpretation.


breakreep + science sitting in a tree...k-i-s-s-i-n-g.

you and science are going to bone and have a science baby.

COOOOOOOL!
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:09 pm
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PoetryBox



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 452
Location: brampton, ON
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I have to give it breakreep in this theard for dropping knowledge and spittin science.
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:13 pm
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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I can't wait!
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:13 pm
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Windom



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 721
Location: Manchester, UK.
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breakreep wrote:
Windom wrote:
Good if you don't want to read pages on steel melting points from self-appointed experts.


While reading pages on such material is understandably boring to most people, you hardly need to be a "self-appointed expert" to understand or write them. All you need is a sound grasp on well-understood physical principles, the ability to correctly manipulate the math that drives these principles, and access to the sort of commonly accepted chart or list of event points that any materials engineer uses in their day-to-day job.

Properly conducted science doesn't rest on the basis of self-proclaimed expertise, it relies on a basic grasp of the tools of mathematical and observational discovery and interpretation.


True that. At the same time, I understand that there are experts on both sides with data, numbers and facts based on their own calculations that result in different conclusions. I agree that anyone that interested in the WTC7 can read and understand the arguments surrounding the collapse, however I know that discussing it on the sole forum some people can't really be arsed reading a lot of material, hence the posted BBC documentaries listed. But yeah I agree.
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:29 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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Bicycle wrote:
Is this an appropriate place to discuss Jared Loughner MK Ultra connections?


I'd say that this is THE place to talk about that! heh.

I always think about the posibility of MK ultra being involved with such senseless and possible political changing murders such as this. Then when I saw on his youtube video how he talks about sleepwalking and how his favorite thing is conscious dreaming, it made me think of what's called "sleeper agents".

But with all conspiracies revolving around MK Ultra, it's pretty hard to find concrete evidence supporting such theories. So I like to focus on what we know for a FACT and that is the media's handling of this story and their focus.

I feel that the media's coverage is completely over exagerating the severity of the incident. Would members of the media be as upset if it didn't involve a congress woman? I really doubt it. So this brings up the question, is it more of a tragedy? Is a congress woman's life more valuable then a regular citizen? If people answer yes to this question then they are severely brainwashed.

Now people are saying that conspiracy theorists are dangerous, demonizing "left wingers" and even pot heads. It's another example of the criminalization of certain ideas and thoughts. Lashing out against the critical thinkers of our society.

So whether or not it was MK ultra, what's important I think is that we don't make associations with this killer and forms of critical thought. If these incidences start happening more and more often, then I think we should investigate the posibility of MK Ultra being involved.
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:44 pm
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Bicycle



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 413
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Is a sleeper agent on some remote viewing/astral realm shit? Cause I dont know if the SFF can handle such talk. I always like my conspiracies with a little bit of psuedo-science occult shit in them though


Of course this congress womans life is more valuable then a regular citizens. Shes related to Gwyneth Paltrow, you know?

The sarah palin hitlist and the 9/11 baby? My brain doesn't deal with coincidence too well. If they are able to pin the blame on the tea party movement this could end up being the tipping point for that already volatile group of people. This whole blame game they got going right now is helping to expand the divide

I was watching Matt lauer on the today show yesterday, asking some "professional" whether or not the media is to be blamed for any this with a tone like "yeah it doesn't really matter, cause Im getting paid motherfucker". Cool guy
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:16 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1809
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/01/lightning-antimatter-physics/






(skip to 1:58)




(skip to 1:45)
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:00 pm
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pedavis



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1425
Location: Illinois, US
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being that plum puddin' is clearly the most-informed on the topic of this thread i'm going to have to agree with him.
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:12 pm
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The Count



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 1558
Location: Chapel Hill
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Fucking Magnets.



How do they work??
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:53 pm
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marc911
i type like i'm having a seizure.


Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 180
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anyone ever visit abovetopsecret.com
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:32 pm
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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1809
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
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That place is filled with Hollow Earth ninjas & HAARP wizards with Atlantis sized chips on their shoulders.
Post Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:21 pm
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9255
Location: london
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it actually says in the bible that if you think a man is a wizard you should stone him to death. shit. I must collect pebbles, that paul daniels man... definitely a wizard
Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:04 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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thanks to breakreap for bringing it in this thread.



i love (i mean hate) revisionist african history. it's almost cute how ridiculous the theories are. but the tenacity with which these people hold their beliefs, and the implicit (or explicit) idea that you're racist for disagreeing with them gets under my skin.

most ridiculous theories:

- the olmec statues are evidence that the ancient africans visited mexico, because the statues have big lips and fat noses.

- the ancient egyptians were black and the europeans didn't like that so they knocked off the sphinx's nose to hide the evidence.

- [insert major historical figure, e.g. jesus, cleopatra] was black, and we knows this for sure.

- the greeks stole all their knowledge from the egyptians.


they also seem to worshiping all things egyptian. it's the only culture in africa that constructed big ass buildings and left substantial ruins, and therefore provides all the hallmarks of civilization that people seem to need their ancient ancestors to have.
Post Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:53 am
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