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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8530
Location: Third Coast
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Confidential wrote:
For every added measure of "security," the state reveals its own insecurity and how little control it really has over things.


Indeed. But then the control paradoxically just gets tighter, you know? More rules, more regulations, less and less personal freedoms.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:08 pm
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Sage Francis
Self Fighteous


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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I hate leaving a link to a fake Rush Limbaugh site, but this story is relevant to our discussion.

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-former-gov-ventura-will-no-longer-fly-due-to-abuse-hes-endured-at-hands-of-tsa/
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:18 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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So what would be a reasonable screening procedure?
Anybody?

Would you guys prefer more physically intrusive but visible screening at the airport or more politically intrusive monitoring and profiling of the people who buy tickets before they get to the airport?

Or would you just prefer there not be screening?

You guys are supreme babies. Think of what you'd do instead or shut up and get your dick or vajayjay brushed for 15 seconds like a trooper.

Jesse Ventura is a real infant. "It's me Jesse Ventura! You should know I'm not a terrorist!"
A lot of people don't realise that a lack of common sense is specifically built into the rules of screening specifically to avoid the pitfalls of profiling.

For most people, a lot of these problems can be avoided by remembering that your cell phone is made with metal and you need to take off your belt.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:11 pm
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O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
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Location: Orange County
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Raoul DeGroot wrote:
Think of what you'd do instead or shut up and get your dick or vajayjay brushed for 15 seconds like a trooper.



See I don't understand this. Not just with this debate but with any other debate. Its always a cop out "if you have no solution then keep quiet" Thats ridiculous. You dont need a solution to complain about something. Having an alternative is not a prerequisite to complain or to point out that something is out of whack. If that was the case then we wouldn't be allowed to criticize anything.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:23 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
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Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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O2K wrote:
If that was the case then we wouldn't be allowed to criticize anything.

maybe - but it strikes me as exceedingly lazy complain about the state of things without offering an alternative.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:35 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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In order for your estimation of something as being out of whack to have any meaning you need to be able to present what you consider to be a normative state that it diverges from.

I don't expect people to have perfect solutions, but I do expect them to weigh the situation well enough to be able to say something besides, "I don't like that!" Tough shit. I think it's okay. So why don't you tell me why I should think otherwise! And bring your A game. Don't be a little weakling.


Last edited by Raoul DeGroot on Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:38 pm
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O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
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crash wrote:
O2K wrote:
If that was the case then we wouldn't be allowed to criticize anything.

maybe - but it strikes me as exceedingly lazy complain about the state of things without offering an alternative.


it also strikes me as lazy to refuse to accept criticism without an alternative.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:38 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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The criticism is the getting peepee's touched? Xrays? Or lack of oversight regarding the relatively modest cases of employee negligence/abuse?

All three?
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:40 pm
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O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
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Raoul DeGroot wrote:
In order for your estimation of something as being out of whack to have any meaning you need to be able to present what you consider to be a normative state that it diverges from.

I don't expect people to have perfect solutions, but I do expect them to weigh the situation well enough to be able to say something besides, "I don't like that!" Tough shit. I think it's okay. So why don't you tell me why I should think otherwise! And bring your A game. Don't be a little weakling.



well how bad was airport security before they upped their game? After 9/11 how many terrorist attacks were there in airport travel with travelers traveling in the continental united states? 98% of americans won't even come within 100 ft of a terrorist or someone even trying to attempt a terrorist attack. Now I am sure you can argue that "when it happens people complain" well isn't that with everything though? Maybe they should check us before we leave our house? Why not have check points? All in the name of safety. We should all carry papers and have random security checks whenever security feels like it. At the grocery store, at the mall, while watching tv. Its all about safety. I am sorry I am not concerned with my safety. I am more frightened by a spider bite then some dude trying to blow up a plane.

Personally I don't care if you think otherwise, but your "you have no alternative so don't complain" bullshit is weak sauce and even more weakling. it takes more to criticize than to just shun it.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:44 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



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Here are some constants for the near future.

-We will have a foreign policy that antagonizes and radicalizes the people who we rely upon for resources and cheap labor.
Our domestic policy will capitalize on that now somewhat real, radicalized threat to keep us sufficiently stressed out that we will continue to perpetuate those short sighted and threat breeding strategies.

-We need to change that and speak to those issues, systematically and on a constant basis.

-Until that, there does exist a real threat of violence from our little bitches. And our little bitches logically want access to the most destructively capable materials and scenarios through the path of least resistance. The largest, most explosive, most prominent, and most maneuverable objects readily available to poor insurgencies remains commercial aircraft.

-Tipping points are a real phenomena- where if certain actions or practices gain enough notice, it creates a snowball effect of adoption of those practices.

-Related to that, the more available hijacking and plane bombing becomes to terrorists, the more available becomes the reactionary and fearful American response. That intense, widespread response to a really prominent, traumatic event is something to be avoided almost more than the actual loss of lives (which is statistically negligible)


So basically, if we don't agree that the statistically tiny loss of relatively innocent lives is sufficient to warrant a change in security, can we agree that the geopolitical cost is potentially MASSIVE?

Ultimately, the risk of violent 1st world responses needs to be changed from within, but that's a long process and I see airport security as a cast or bandage of sorts to at least lessen the risk of some sort of smart bomb droppin', hundreds of thousands of iraqi civilian killin, infarctions on our part. Until we have healed ourselves anyway.


Sidenote- modern commercial aviation is relatively recent. As is the level of antagonism we have with the 3rd/2nd world. Sometimes people don't do things throughout history because they just haven't thought of it yet. or the conditions havent arisen yet. But you can't reclose pandora's box just easy peasy.


Last edited by Raoul DeGroot on Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:03 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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It should go without saying that I'm with DeGroot. Which is why I said it.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:08 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
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Location: Son Quest
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These bars aren't just here to protect us from you. They're here to protect you from US!

Even a plane bombing once a decade can have some pretty deleterious effects.
No shit I'm gettin my dick radded up. I'm really cool with my dick taking a hit for fewer reasons to explode foreign motheruckers and their houses. I don't want kids anyway.

get your dick and vag touched for world peace.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:17 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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Raoul DeGroot wrote:
get your dick and vag touched for world peace.


Kese can hook us up with the t-shirts.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:23 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
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Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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what raoul said

i get tired of hearing people suggest that changing our foreign policy would solve all our terrorist trouble. as if al-qaida would close up shop if we withdrew from afghanistan and iraq and stopped bankrolling the israeli state.

our foreign policy plays a large part in creating anti-american terrorists, but changing it isn't going to stop the ones that are already radicalized.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:42 pm
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Raoul DeGroot



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As if we could stop bankrolling Israel and withdraw from Afghanistan without completely reorienting the control strategies of the powerful. Or massively disrupting the cohesiveness of modern global power.

And let's face it, as disorganized and counterproductive the strategies of the powerful seem when you consider the welfare of even just the citizens of the first world (to say nothing of the rest of the world) -from another view, not related to our general survival, they've been almost mathematical in their methods of extracting ever greater short term profit while destabilizing or incorporating competitive forces.

Everything stupid and destructive that happens is either actively or passively beneficial to the increasingly cohesive mass of behaviors and persons that happen to compose the current and past shape of 'power'. It's not always a perfect alignment of motives, but the general vectors have been pretty consistent.


Not that the enormity of the task should make anyone give up, but it should let you be open to the idea of moving in stages, and allowing for some damage control type compromises. Chosen selectively.

I'm much more cool with protocol based physical screening than smart, threat-weighing detection, which unfortunately has the danger of being much more socially intrusive.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:03 pm
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