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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Sage Francis
Self Fighteous


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 21596
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I kind of regret not making a bigger deal out of this when I was asked to go through the Rape Gate in Boston. Airports are a constant string of annoyances and I try not to even think about it anymore. But still in all, I pay for my flights knowing that I am going to be subjecting myself to a string of annoying and shitty things just so I can get to my destination. They asked me to go through the Rape Gate, I went through the Rape Gate without question, and then I proceeded to my destination. I'm not sure how much further bullshit I would put up with but it's probably a lot. I don't travel for the fun of it.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:30 pm
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mzehe916



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 4543
Location: Switzerland
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Do they let you look at the image? I might want to explain myself to the TSA agents every once in a while, kind of like how I do it at the sauna. "I'm a grower not a show-er. You can't judge me. I'm circumcised. Let me get a redo, hold on!" Soon there will be celeb "rape gate" photo scandals.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:38 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5456
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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dave barry was on npr complaining that the tsa pulled him out of line because he had "blurred genitals".
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:17 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8547
Location: Third Coast
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Though I don't agree with these increasingly invasive methods in the name of airport security, at same point two questions need to be answered: 1) what are you going to do about it?; and 2) what is the alternative? In a post-9/11 world people were anxious to identify and protect themselves from the Other, the terrorist, and as such we "waived our rights with our flag" as our buddy Sage has noted. Now the government has their own just cause, ostensibly supported by the public, to implement ultra-tight and invasive security measures in one of the few plausible areas: the airport.

You can guarantee that if a terrorist managed to get through the security checks at JFK or O'Hare or LAX the public would be up in arms about laxity on the part of TSA. As someone else has pointed out, the people working for TSA are poorly paid and ingrained with the idea of protecting both the public and their job security with extremely thorough -- and profiled -- procedures. The alternative is what then? A neutral questionnaire and a Soviet-era metal detector? Guard dogs sniffing for explosive chemicals? Or Total Recall style bodyscanners? At some point privacy must be balanced, or compromised, to accommodate the assurance of peace of mind.

Again, while I don't agree with these methods, I don't see a viable alternative as long as air travel remains the most popular mode of long-distance travel. Unfortunately altruism does not keep people safe. Certainly the regulations for the TSA regarding what they can and can't do need to be explicit and comprehensive, and there needs to be regulation. There also needs to be avenues of recourse for those, like the gentleman who was detained and threatened with a civil suit or the woman who was molested in front of her child, who have been abused by a system designed to protect and ensure their safety.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:27 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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These "methods" work about as well as prohibition. This is the illusion of safety. It's not acceptable in any way even if there are "no viable alternatives".
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:50 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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Here's an idea, use a fabric paint with metal flakes in it like silver or gold to write something on a t-shirt. Then wear the shirt through the scanner under your normal clothes. Like, "If you can read this you're a jerk." or something even better like "I like to eat vag with aji verde salsa." Just to send a message.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:03 pm
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Stumbleweed



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 9740
Location: Denver
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redball wrote:
"I like to eat vag with aji verde salsa." Just to send a message.

Still thinking of the possibilities with that stuff, eh?
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:25 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8547
Location: Third Coast
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jakethesnake wrote:
These "methods" work about as well as prohibition. This is the illusion of safety. It's not acceptable in any way even if there are "no viable alternatives".


How is an illusion of safety? If the security measures in place dissuade would-be terrorists from smuggling a booty bomb on board I'd say the safety provided is very real. The TSA is designed to enforce airline regulations regarding specific products, to remove these products from travelers, to make the concealment of said products exceedingly difficult, and to deter terrorist activity. Are the methods 100% foolproof and effective? Of course not. But to say they are merely illusory in regards to safety is only half the story at best. The issue isn't necessarily with the tactics themselves, but with how those tactics are implemented.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:28 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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Location: airstrip one
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Captiv8 wrote:
jakethesnake wrote:
These "methods" work about as well as prohibition. This is the illusion of safety. It's not acceptable in any way even if there are "no viable alternatives".


How is an illusion of safety? If the security measures in place dissuade would-be terrorists from smuggling a booty bomb on board I'd say the safety provided is very real. The TSA is designed to enforce airline regulations regarding specific products, to remove these products from travelers, to make the concealment of said products exceedingly difficult, and to deter terrorist activity. Are the methods 100% foolproof and effective? Of course not. But to say they are merely illusory in regards to safety is only half the story at best. The issue isn't necessarily with the tactics themselves, but with how those tactics are implemented.


Yes, the illusion of safety. Anyone who really wants to will find a way around this, just like you said. If a suicide bomber shoved plastic explosives in his ass, got through security and blew up a plane, would you be ok with full cavity searches for passengers? Where do you draw the line?
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:35 pm
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zagadka
DARK PAST HAVER


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 4932
Location: Hous of Gaga
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jakethesnake wrote:
Captiv8 wrote:
jakethesnake wrote:
These "methods" work about as well as prohibition. This is the illusion of safety. It's not acceptable in any way even if there are "no viable alternatives".


How is an illusion of safety? If the security measures in place dissuade would-be terrorists from smuggling a booty bomb on board I'd say the safety provided is very real. The TSA is designed to enforce airline regulations regarding specific products, to remove these products from travelers, to make the concealment of said products exceedingly difficult, and to deter terrorist activity. Are the methods 100% foolproof and effective? Of course not. But to say they are merely illusory in regards to safety is only half the story at best. The issue isn't necessarily with the tactics themselves, but with how those tactics are implemented.


Yes, the illusion of safety. Anyone who really wants to will find a way around this, just like you said. If a suicide bomber shoved plastic explosives in his ass, got through security and blew up a plane, would you be ok with full cavity searches for passengers? Where do you draw the line?



Ah, you just beat me to it.

I can see regular cavity searches happening. And prostate stroking.

"Sir, I am going to finger your prostate now"
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:57 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8547
Location: Third Coast
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jakethesnake wrote:
Captiv8 wrote:
jakethesnake wrote:
These "methods" work about as well as prohibition. This is the illusion of safety. It's not acceptable in any way even if there are "no viable alternatives".


How is an illusion of safety? If the security measures in place dissuade would-be terrorists from smuggling a booty bomb on board I'd say the safety provided is very real. The TSA is designed to enforce airline regulations regarding specific products, to remove these products from travelers, to make the concealment of said products exceedingly difficult, and to deter terrorist activity. Are the methods 100% foolproof and effective? Of course not. But to say they are merely illusory in regards to safety is only half the story at best. The issue isn't necessarily with the tactics themselves, but with how those tactics are implemented.


Yes, the illusion of safety. Anyone who really wants to will find a way around this, just like you said. If a suicide bomber shoved plastic explosives in his ass, got through security and blew up a plane, would you be ok with full cavity searches for passengers? Where do you draw the line?


But isn't that the purpose of the imaging devices? To prevent dude's from housing explosives or other harmful materials in their colons? Your last question is the most pertinent, and the most difficult to answer. As I said, the balance must be maintained between privacy and peace of mind. Do I think it's all right to subject people to full-body patdowns and scanning devices that render them naked? Absolutely not. In many ways this state of affairs at the airport is symptomatic of much large sociocultural problems in the United States and the world, and frankly it all disgusts me. The technological threshold has nearly been reached in my opinion, but its the linear progression of society at large can't put Pandora back in the box, as it were. The only option now is to mediate the state of affairs as they are because, pending a massive revolution that I'm not hopeful of given voter turnouts, they aren't going to revert.

My underlying point was that amidst the gripes (which I admittedly made as well) of "This is a violation of privacy!" and various forms of "Injustice!" there is no call to action, there is no alternative presented, and there is no solution offered. I don't have the answers to these things either, but I'd like to see and be a part of something pro-active rather than a collective moan of "This sucks, next topic to complain about please."

Ehhhhhh. I think I'm just fed up in general, and rather cynical right now about the human condition. Sorry for the ventage.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:59 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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Location: Third Coast
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Also, I could use a hug from Jared Paul.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:02 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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I'm perfectly OK with a metal detector. It's not like you go through xray scans to get on a bus or a train. I'm not sure what all the hooplah is about planes. I'm pretty sure all this shit stems from xenophobia or irrational fears of flying or heights so people are looking for an added "safety" measure.

Newflash people: the universe is harsh, unless you live in a goddamn underground bunker with padded walls you are in danger, even then an earthquake could kill you. Some guy at the airport checking out your nuts or sticking his rubber-gloved finger in your butthole doesn't change this.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:26 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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Stumbleweed wrote:
redball wrote:
"I like to eat vag with aji verde salsa." Just to send a message.

Still thinking of the possibilities with that stuff, eh?


Yes. It really is amazing. I'm not the only one, check out the intro to this recipe. I would let them blast my nuts with these machines all day long if I could have a gallon jug of this shit to just eat with some chips. It's just that good.

Also an alternative for the hairier set might be to shave a smiley into your pubes.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:40 pm
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Confidential



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2040
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For every added measure of "security," the state reveals its own insecurity and how little control it really has over things.
Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:50 pm
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