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Jared Paul



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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RI antiwar group staged a protest at Obama's fundraiser  Reply with quote  

RI antiwar group to stage protest at Obama fundraiser

The RI Mobilization Committee to Stop War and Occupation (RIMC) has called for an antiwar protest in downtown Providence from 4:00 to 6:00 PM on October 25. Antiwar protesters will gather at 4:00 in Burnside Park, across from Kennedy Plaza. At 4:20 they will march to the RI Convention Center, where President Obama is appearing at a fundraiser between 4:00 and 5:30. The protest will be demanding the following: End Obama's Wars and Occupations Now; End the Attacks on Civil Liberties; and Money for Jobs, Not for War.

The Iraq war is continuing, with a large number of military contractors in addition to 50,000 US troops, some involved in combat operations. President Obama has engaged in a major expansion of the war in Afghanistan, with the recent addition of 40,000 troops, as well as an expansion of the covert war in Pakistan, where the drone attacks conducted by the CIA have quadrupled under the Obama administration.

At the same time that we are seeing a major expansion of the US wars in the Middle East and Central Asia, as well as a growing military presence in Latin America, we are also witnessing increased repression and harassment of both the Muslim-American and the antiwar communities in the US. Just a few weeks ago, the FBI conducted raids against antiwar activists in Minneapolis, Chicago and other cities.

President Obama was elected to promote change, but instead we are seeing an expansion of US wars abroad and attacks on civil liberties at home. Even the President's early promise to close the extra-legal prison at Guantanamo has not been fulfilled.

RIMC is urging everyone who supports peace, justice and civil liberties to join us at the antiwar protest in downtown Providence on Monday, October 25 at 4:00 PM.


Last edited by Jared Paul on Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:20 am
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sarah q



Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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I forgot about this when I agreed to work Monday. :/
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:51 pm
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Confidential



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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Deportations are up and more troops at the border under the Obamer
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:00 pm
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See Arrrgh



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Location: New England
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I don't want to turn this into a huge argument or anything, but I'm curious about whether there's any credible evidence available that supports the claims made in this post. I'd like to read up if I've somehow missed any new developments on the war(s) in the Middle East. I try to keep an eye out for any substantial news about the operations in the Middle East, but there never seems to be anything but hearsay and uncited quotations from unknown "military officials" with no evidence to support these quotations.

Also, does the RIMC have any ideas as to how the wars can be ended, and the military presence can be removed completely from the Middle East, without leaving a vacuum of power that will more than likely be filled with something worse than American/NATO aggressors? Are there any ideas being brought forth to offer a real chance for a de-escalation of the wars in the Middle East that doesn't leave the people in those communities worse off than they currently might be? Are there any ideas other than "End the wars now"? If any progressive groups hope to actually achieve change instead of just getting their names and pictures in the paper, there needs to be real talks about how to properly address the issue of withdrawing troops (overt and covert) from the Middle East (as well as any other countries we've got operatives in) without leaving the innocent people in these countries (specifically the people who have been pro-America, or have helped our forces or NATO forces in any way) worse off than they are now, or were before we arrived. Without a real plan of action, what change can we really hope for?
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:37 pm
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crash



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i can't speak on latin america, but everything else in jared's post is true.
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:56 pm
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See Arrrgh



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Any sources for further reading?
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:14 pm
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TurnpikeGates



Joined: 30 Jun 2003
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See Arrrgh wrote:
If any progressive groups hope to actually achieve change instead of just getting their names and pictures in the paper


This is a weird charge. Since when has the media covered antiwar protests?
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:35 pm
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See Arrrgh



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Ignoring that "in the paper" is an outdated saying, the "media" is a pretty ambiguous term. Do you mean mainstream media? Sporadically. Taking "media" at its most general, though, anti-war protests get covered plenty. Blogs, Facebook posts, YouTube videos, Twitter posts, etc etc. With this comes people who want to take advantage of the attention and the energy at these protests to promote themselves, or say that they're "involved" even if they're really not. There are plenty of these peoples. Just because I recognize this fact doesn't mean I'm making any weird charges.
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:45 pm
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TurnpikeGates



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See Arrrgh wrote:
Ignoring that "in the paper" is an outdated saying, the "media" is a pretty ambiguous term. Do you mean mainstream media? Sporadically. Taking "media" at its most general, though, anti-war protests get covered plenty. Blogs, Facebook posts, YouTube videos, Twitter posts, etc etc. With this comes people who want to take advantage of the attention and the energy at these protests to promote themselves, or say that they're "involved" even if they're really not. There are plenty of these peoples. Just because I recognize this fact doesn't mean I'm making any weird charges.


Yes, I mean the mainstream media. It's just odd that the burden is on people who are actually going out and trying the best way they can to end an immoral war to prove that they're doing it for the "right" reasons.

I think your whole "devil's advocate" "I'm just wondering" critique is disingenuous. Plenty of withdrawal plans have been offered. How do progressive groups have the responsibility to draft the exit plan when those in control aren't even entertaining the thought?

Not to mention the concern for the U.S./NATO collaborators is only really sensible when you're looking at things from a perspective where these were essentially justifiable wars we got stuck with. Collaborating with an occupying force brings consequences post-liberation. That's pretty standard practice. Sure, there's a sense in which the U.S. military is responsible for the lives of those who they've brought into harms way, but there's not going to be a situation where an invading army withdraws from a country, and the people who enabled them are not resented or worse.

The basic outline is this: Withdraw troops, pay reparations.

But it's fantasy, just like your "moderate" sensibility, because it assumes that those with state and corporate power believe in moral culpability or public welfare, rather than their own geopolitical and financial interests. That's why "End The War Now" is the only reasonable platform for protest. Not "Draw down, then retrain the Iraqi army, then oversee continued elections, then blah blah blah..."

It's not an "Oops, we fucked up but we REALLY care about democracy and peace" issue. It's a "We had certain goals, we achieved some level of success in those goals, now how do we mitigate the problems that come along with those successes? How do we maintain control of the middle east without overstretching our military? How do we ensure sycophantic-yet-stable regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq?"

So it's kinda absurd to pretend that serious anti-war activists are part of some "public forum" give-and-take with the holders of power. "Just give us a good exit strategy!" Yeah right.
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:28 pm
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See Arrrgh



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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Location: New England
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TurnpikeGates wrote:
See Arrrgh wrote:
Ignoring that "in the paper" is an outdated saying, the "media" is a pretty ambiguous term. Do you mean mainstream media? Sporadically. Taking "media" at its most general, though, anti-war protests get covered plenty. Blogs, Facebook posts, YouTube videos, Twitter posts, etc etc. With this comes people who want to take advantage of the attention and the energy at these protests to promote themselves, or say that they're "involved" even if they're really not. There are plenty of these peoples. Just because I recognize this fact doesn't mean I'm making any weird charges.


Yes, I mean the mainstream media. It's just odd that the burden is on people who are actually going out and trying the best way they can to end an immoral war to prove that they're doing it for the "right" reasons.

I think your whole "devil's advocate" "I'm just wondering" critique is disingenuous. Plenty of withdrawal plans have been offered. How do progressive groups have the responsibility to draft the exit plan when those in control aren't even entertaining the thought?

Not to mention the concern for the U.S./NATO collaborators is only really sensible when you're looking at things from a perspective where these were essentially justifiable wars we got stuck with. Collaborating with an occupying force brings consequences post-liberation. That's pretty standard practice. Sure, there's a sense in which the U.S. military is responsible for the lives of those who they've brought into harms way, but there's not going to be a situation where an invading army withdraws from a country, and the people who enabled them are not resented or worse.

The basic outline is this: Withdraw troops, pay reparations.

But it's fantasy, just like your "moderate" sensibility, because it assumes that those with state and corporate power believe in moral culpability or public welfare, rather than their own geopolitical and financial interests. That's why "End The War Now" is the only reasonable platform for protest. Not "Draw down, then retrain the Iraqi army, then oversee continued elections, then blah blah blah..."

It's not an "Oops, we fucked up but we REALLY care about democracy and peace" issue. It's a "We had certain goals, we achieved some level of success in those goals, now how do we mitigate the problems that come along with those successes? How do we maintain control of the middle east without overstretching our military? How do we ensure sycophantic-yet-stable regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq?"

So it's kinda absurd to pretend that serious anti-war activists are part of some "public forum" give-and-take with the holders of power. "Just give us a good exit strategy!" Yeah right.


After making a comment about my "weird charge," you do a good job of making claims directly about me without knowing anything about me.

I don't disagree with everything you've said. However, how long have we been screaming "END THE WAR!" and have received nothing in return? In fact, when has yelling slogans ever really achieved anything without support from the mainstream media (which is a way to garner support from the public in general)? A show of support is great, but it doesn't lead to anything because we're shouting "End the war!" while money continues to flow into the hands of the people who truly make these decisions. Perhaps attempting to achieve some sort of public forum give-and-take would yield more results than 10 years of "End the war!" has? I mean, how long should people stick with the same losing game plan without questioning if there might be a better way to achieve their goal(s)?

I'm not trying to say that the protests are completely useless. I asked for sources so I could beef up what knowledge I'm lacking in the Middle East operations department. My questions about RIMC's ideas were more on the line of wondering what the organization stands for. If they have no ideas other than painting slogans onto signs and t-shirts and going and standing somewhere, I don't feel like it serves any real purpose. And furthermore, that wouldn't be something I would want to be a part of. I'm not sure why my attempts to question the credibility of this organization is a bad idea, especially since I generally agree that the "wars" need to be de-escalated and that the money spent on the defense budget is a huge waste of resources. Instead of jumping all over my ass for questioning this organization (and any other organization wishing to gain my support), perhaps you could help answer my questions so that some real plans can be made. If you're cool with just riding the jocks of any anti-war movement that happens to spark up near you, that's cool. I'm not. Just because it's left, doesn't mean it's right.
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:52 pm
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Jared Paul



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See Arrrgh wrote:
Any sources for further reading?



No argument here, man. Totally legitimate question. Though, I'm not really looking for folks to agree with me in this thread, but more to seek out local heads who already agree and who're interested in coming out to protest the war. www.rethinkafghanistan.com/ is a good place to start. Also, basically any www.democracynow.org, chomsky, zinn, zizek, scahill, klein, harpers, guardian, or Iraq Veterans Against the War article on the subject ever written.

These are my sources, and the studies, books, articles they cite are posted in their work. Google any of their names and "Afghanistan" and you'll come up with a ton of stuff.


I do not accept the "we broke it, now we have to fix it" logic. It's a lot like, "well, if we don't vote for the Democrats, then the Republicans will win." Which is fine on the surface but is still nowhere near as good as: "If we never voted for either again, and spent our time pushing for an alternative to Capitalism and the one party system, then it'll only be a matter of time before they both crumble.

I've identified as a socialist for about a year now and I will almost certainly never vote for a Democrat again in my life. They've been the "good" cop, in the "good cop/bad cop" scam used to fleece the American people (people of the world as well) for well over a century. Some things are better under Obama, but too many of them are worse. I hope he does win in 2012, but the Democrats cannot be trusted, nor are they capable, of carrying out the change required to stop War and the corporatizing of the world. The surface of the earth will be made unlivable for animals long before any kind of real change will be achieved at the one step forward-two steps back pace they set.

I don't blame or hate on people who want to keep voting for or supporting Democrats but as for myself I can longer take that path in good conscience. Their party is not worth the time or talents of organizers and workers who genuinely want to see corporate power broken and the war machine smashed, and the people's taxes used for schools, medicine, housing, food, and things that people really need.

I think that if interested/fed up people really begin to research the history of the Democratic Party and how it helped smash the great labor movements in this country, waged just as many wars as the Republicans, crushed human/civil/environmental rights movements, and otherwise stood in the way of justice right along, then they will eventually also agree that not only is Capitalism not a system that can ever lead to equality and justice, but that it is the main factor preventing equality and justice.

Afghanistan is a perfect example, everything is worse than it was when we got there.

We've had almost 10 years to "fix" it. Instead we've just broken it a little more each year.

We need to respect people's right to self determination. We need to leave.

The U.S. is in Afghanistan to cement a geo-political power grab (maintain another strategic stronghold in close proximity to Russia/China/Mid East) and to grant corporations access to Afghanistan's resources.

If it were only about "fixing" the country, "women's rights," and/or "helping people," then not only would the U.S. government have left along time ago, it would've never went in the first place (i.e. Darfur, Rwanda, Burma, etc.)

Obama has not only accepted Bush's Imperialist policies but expanded them; in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, and Columbia. He sat back and allowed the U.S. military to keep running training drills with the Honduran Coup government's military WHILE the coup was happening and did nothing at all about the 2009 massacre in Gaza or the Flotilla strikes. Not too mention continuing the Bank Bail Outs and totally flopping on BP.

And, allllll while allowing the right and the media to pin the mistakes of the last administration on him without fighting back out of "fear of looking too liberal."

I'm all done with Democrats, and I protest any pro-war politician or org regardless of what party they belong to. It is not my job to support them or to keep them afloat. If they want to earn the votes of the progressive people they're losing, then they are going to have to actually act progressive and earn it. And if people want to try to reform that party, they are welcome to it. I don't blame them for still wanting to try. That is however no longer my job in anyway, shape, or form. My job is to research, get people in the street, share information, create dialog, support third party candidates, and do whatever I can to build an organized American left/show why Capitalism cannot work.


*Rethink Afghanistan has some solid info. Chomski kills it, as always, in almost every article and interview on the subject.


Last edited by Jared Paul on Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:02 am; edited 2 times in total
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:35 pm
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anomaly
Loserface


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Do....not....get.....arrested.
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:41 pm
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See Arrrgh



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Jared Paul wrote:
See Arrrgh wrote:
Any sources for further reading?


No argument here, man. Totally legitimate question. Though, I'm not really looking for folks to agree with me in this thread, but more to seek out local heads who already agree and who're interested in coming out to protest the war. www.rethinkafghanistan.com/ is a good place to start. Also, basically any www.democracynow.org, chomski, zinn, zizek, scahill, klein, harpers, guardian, or Iraq Veterans Against the War article ever written.

These are my sources, and the studies, books, articles they cite are posted in their work. Google any of their names and "Aghanistan" and you'll come up with a ton of stuff.


Cool. I've seen a lot of the videos on rethinkafghanistan. My attention to democrazynow is fairly sporadic. I'll definitely have to give it a dedicated look tomorrow when I have more free time to sit down and search through it.
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:55 pm
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IAmNiki



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See Arrrgh wrote:

Cool. I've seen a lot of the videos on rethinkafghanistan. My attention to democrazynow is fairly sporadic. I'll definitely have to give it a dedicated look tomorrow when I have more free time to sit down and search through it.
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:17 pm
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See Arrrgh



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IAmNiki wrote:
See Arrrgh wrote:

Cool. I've seen a lot of the videos on rethinkafghanistan. My attention to democrazynow is fairly sporadic. I'll definitely have to give it a dedicated look tomorrow when I have more free time to sit down and search through it.



Ahahaha. Freudian slip.
Post Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:18 pm
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