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U.S. bill to stop pirate sites
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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bigsole
Bought his character on ebay


Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 720
Location: the o
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jake... the government already has access to everything on my computer. spying on civilians has only become more widespread and commonplace under obama. nothing is a secret. everything that exists in digital form is SAVED, cell phone calls, gmail chats, everything. this bill has nothing to do with that. presumed innocence has been dead since the towers fell.

redball... good... maybe all these digital dj characters will have to make their own music and people will begin respecting artists who create their own music again. i'll happily take nuclear winter off the internet.

i also find it hard to believe that they will be able to scan zip files to find if i sampled otis redding or not... thats gonna be impossible for them... they'd have to shut down the entire internet...

i believe in intellectual property.


isn't there something in this bill though, that allows the government to close down sites deemed as "other" ie: questionable material, IE: wikileaks, etc .
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:38 am
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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Of course they can look inside a zip file, it's not that hard. You can see this in action on almost all corporate email systems. It is, however, thwarted by password protecting the file and then giving the password openly. There will be workarounds to everything.

However, the point is that it's automatic policing, and it will automatically police you. Just like how YouTube's system already catches copyrighted content but allows content creators to reject uses that are covered under fair use, the Internet of the future will serve to destroy fair use for all. Or at least make fair use so expensive that it is effectively destroyed.

And, of course, sometimes it won't just be fair use. Sometimes it'll be an automatic take down of SFR because Sage posts one of his own tracks. It will pit artists against their own distributors in a protectionist model where the distributors always call the shots.

For the record, I believe in Copyright and I believe in patents. I think they're both useful tools that are required for a creative society to properly reward creators. However, they're also growing too strong and the enforcement far outweighs the needs. The terms are also out of sync with reality and they favor a system in which culture is increasing controlled by corporate interests. Thus, I oppose giving new enforcement tools without fixing the old ones. I oppose supporting old business models via overly punitive legal codes.

And then there's that last tidbit, and it's what I was eluding to in the first place. Yes, multiple sections of ACTA and this entire bill are really aimed at a sort of information control and enforcement that has little to do with the entertainment industry and much more to do with the high availability of information on the Internet. Both this and ACTA are structured such that they'll give the government more control over what can be shared and what can't be, and they will be used extensively for enforcement outside of copyright infringement. The DMCA already proved that, during the first decade of its existence it was used for everything from stifling free speech to preventing aftermarket inkjet cartridges. Every indication shows that these laws will be manipulated and misused similarly.

And I promise you that independent artists will not make appreciably more money.
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:38 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one
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I'm pretty sure Sage already ran into that issue this year with youtube taking down the video for Best of Times I think?
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:55 am
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bigsole
Bought his character on ebay


Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 720
Location: the o
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well that sucks then.

i was listening to alex jones(i know) talking about this bill last night, and it was kind of freaking me out... but then i was trying to research the bill today i couldn't find any good information on it... you got any good sources for this? i need to know more about this.

funny thing, is obama's internet "czar" plays MMOS and is a huge proponent of creative commons and open source media, i guess that doesn't mean shit anymore.
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:56 am
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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Well, I don't know what Alex Jones said about the bill but the likelihood here is that these things will be used for some information control, but the broader concern is the cultural control these measures are meant to either defend or hand over to large corporations. Just like the DMCA these things are always very easy to use for a big corp with a huge legal team and lots of political and enforcement connections but it'll be nearly impossible for the little guy to successfully use them.

The government is likely to use this to kill off sites like Wikileaks, though a Wikileaks.de registration or something similar would not be effected and to kill that off would likely cause an international stir. Otherwise it may be used to quell some homespun dissenters but most of the laws on the books allow that to happen anyway. In fact, they've been using existing laws to help kill off botnets and spammer hosts.

The bigger problem with things like this is that they are only truly effective against legitimate sites. An illegitimate site goes away and a new one that circumvents the legal tool pops right up. For instance, if this only pertains to US registrations then any foreign TLD would be exempt.

The only way that doesn't work is if the argument is that we run the Internet so all registrations come through us. That argument is dangerous because it could produce the dreaded Great Net Split where the rest of the world finally grows tired of the US claiming ownership of the entire network.

Even if we assume that something along those lines occurs then all it would take is for a user to swap out their DNS server and they'd be able to use the foreign DNS. There's also short-term workarounds to DNS problems, like using URL shortening services.

You should be able to see how this would greatly harm any legit website caught up in the scuffle. Meanwhile illegitimate websites expect this sort of thing and normally have some sort of social network to help spread the word about workarounds. A legit website can't continue to operate when the only way to get to it is a shortened URL redirect. An illegitimate website can with no harm done.

The assumption I make is that most people involved already know this to be true. They either think that killing the US TLD DNS entry will have more effect than I believe it will, or they just don't care and they have ulterior motives. I'm betting on the latter, and I think the motives are to get the more effective (though more draconian) ACTA pushed through negotiations with the provisions that only the US is interested in.
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:44 pm
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Dr Sagacious



Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1843
Location: Redford
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Hopefully none of this happens. Life would suck if it did. Or would it? Would it be better if there was an actual reason to not go on Facebook besides that it is already pointless?
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:54 pm
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Disharmony



Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 3012
Location: Buried in Minnesota dirt.
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Ahhh, internets. Quit worrying. Settle down.
Seriously. Okay? Kisses.
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:04 pm
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6871
Location: Northern New Jersey
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I don't think the layman should worry about any of this at this point. ACTA isn't settled and is a long way from ratification. Even if this law is passed it will affect very few people.

I don't think the layman should be excited about either, though. Nor should most artists.
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:24 pm
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Dr Sagacious



Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1843
Location: Redford
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Damn it, Redball. Stop scaring me.
Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:48 pm
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