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Obama's Nobel acceptance speech
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Joshua Kane



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 670
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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WrathChild wrote:
Josh, what are your thoughts on Goldman Sachs responsibility for the current recession? Who would you side with more, Matt Taibbi or Megan Mcardle?


GS is an incredibly complex organization, one arm does this and another does that, and how connected any of the arms are, seems to be mainly known only by GS leadership. But I am not an expert on GS. Neither is Taibbi or Mccardle I don't think, although both may know more than myself.

That being said, owing to the complexity of the issue, I find I agree with Taibbi on some points and mccardle on others - the two together paint an astoundingly complex picture, as they should.

Undoubtedly, enough books will be written about Goldman's role in the financial crisis to fill a long library shelf; total consensus will never emerge. But one thing could not be anymore clear, and that is that GS had and has tremendous sway over certain aspects of the American government, and they have used that priveleged positioning to massage reform towards what GS needs with little regard to the overall nation and economy. Perhaps they have helped the nation, perhaps they haven't; I do believe GS basically doesn't give a shit either way, as long as they get their way. And that goes for most of Wall Strret. Its an unfathomable tragedy in some respects....

And this is where Taibbi, Macardle and I agree, Mcardle writes: "Which is not to say that I disagree with Taibbi's project. Wall Street is an arrogant beast that more than held up its half of the devil's bargain which drove us into our current ugly straits. Bankers who thought they were geniuses were deceived by models that assumed away the possibility of a second great depression. They made a terrifying amount of money doing it. And now that the taxpayers have bailed them out at considerable expense, we don't even get a goddamn fruit basket. Instead they merrily go along paying themselves gigantic bonuses for the singular feat of not driving our economy entirely back to the stone age. I think some populist rage is more than warranted."

Here is the Mcardle article:
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/07/matt_taibbi_gets_his_sarah_pal.php

For more of my views regarding Goldman Sachs, its many lackeys, and their role in maipulating policy, see the following blog posts (most written prior to Taibbi's article):

Jan 28, 2009:
http://thesystemisblinkingred.blogspot.com/2009/01/just-who-is-taking-over-whom-here.html

April 6, 2009:
http://thesystemisblinkingred.blogspot.com/2009/04/reader-questions-geithner.html

May 1, 2009 (prior to Taibbi) - The Goldman Conspiracy:
http://thesystemisblinkingred.blogspot.com/2009/05/goldman-conspiracy.html

June 23, 2009 (still prior):
http://thesystemisblinkingred.blogspot.com/2009/06/letting-blind-drive-again.html

September 23, 2009:
http://thesystemisblinkingred.blogspot.com/2009/09/obama-outsourcer-will-almost-spilled-be.html


Last edited by Joshua Kane on Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:03 pm
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WrathChild



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 953
Location: Reno eNVy
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Thanks Josh, I actually looked on TSIBR prior to my post but didn't go back far enough I guess. Really enjoyed the most recent Dubai post.

I've been incredibly interested in the Goldman "conspiracy" for the last few weeks and was wondering where you weighed in on it. I have a hard time believing they created the last 5 bubbles all by themselves, but I do believe they purposely perpetuated them for massive gains with the full knowledge it would be disastrous for all but the most privileged on Wall Street.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:18 pm
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Joshua Kane



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 670
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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WrathChild wrote:
Thanks Josh, I actually looked on TSIBR prior to my post but didn't go back far enough I guess. Really enjoyed the most recent Dubai post.

I've been incredibly interested in the Goldman "conspiracy" for the last few weeks and was wondering where you weighed in on it. I have a hard time believing they created the last 5 bubbles all by themselves, but I do believe they purposely perpetuated them for massive gains with the full knowledge it would be <potentially> disastrous for all but the most privileged on Wall Street.


Thank you WrathChild so much, any interest truly means alot to me. Above I've added a <potentially> to your words. With that addition, we are in basic agreement. Interestingly, adding that word in and of itself brings the argument closer to Mcardle than Taibbi. But Taibbi had IMPACT; in this one case I would say his end justified his means.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:27 pm
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O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1856
Location: Orange County
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Predictable speech for an unwarranted award. everything about this is undeserved and underwhelming. But this was expected.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:28 pm
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Joshua Kane



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 670
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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The more I hear about it, the more I realize that this award has been awarded terribly for quite sometime. I should've realized that sooner lol.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:40 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6303
Location: the barber of hard truths
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Joshua Kane wrote:
War, like most human conditions, is an absolute paradox - everyone hates it and yet does it at some point in their life - whether with bullets fists money or words. Thus, if any leader is to talk honestly about war, his discussion will inevitably be paradoxical.

And what better leader and venue for an honest discussion of the paradoxes of war & peace then this particular leader & venue? This award being imposed on Obama like some politcized wish hanging in the wind; they've disgraced the award immeasurably.

Obama did not ask for or want this, he never claimed to be a pacifist... people, he necver claimed to be against war generally. I very much appreciate and welcome Obama's honest discussion of perhaps the deepest of all paradoxes in the human condition at this stage in global affairs.


the point of something like the nobel prize is that it honors those who dream big enough to believe that what we see as inevitable about our environment can be changed by a certain kind of leadership. nobody is a child here, we understand that armed conflict probably won't go away anytime soon, but he was very very small in front of that storied microphone. it was a law professor giving a seminar. considering where it feels like your politics come from sometimes, it doesn't shock me that you can't see why that's a little disappointing.
Post Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:17 am
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Joshua Kane



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 670
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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shambhala wrote:


the point of something like the nobel prize is that it honors those who dream big enough to believe that what we see as inevitable about our environment can be changed by a certain kind of leadership. nobody is a child here, we understand that armed conflict probably won't go away anytime soon, but he was very very small in front of that storied microphone. it was a law professor giving a seminar. considering where it feels like your politics come from sometimes, it doesn't shock me that you can't see why that's a little disappointing.


Hmmm... I see what you're saying: Josh Kane has a little too much professor and, dare I say, neocon in him for my taste, and seemingly for his own.

I completely agree. How's that for paradox?
Post Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:34 am
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Confidential



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2040
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Congrats Mr. Obama

Post Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:20 pm
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O2K
SFF has a stalker.


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1856
Location: Orange County
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I also want to say that I understand and acknowledge that sometimes war is necessary. However both this war (Af/Pak) and the Iraq wars were both unnecessary. Neither of them are justified. The war profiteers must keep going though.
Post Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:43 pm
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