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Obama's Nobel acceptance speech
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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McLirious



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 533
Location: Portland, OR
Obama's Nobel acceptance speech  Reply with quote  

I just got thru reading the transcript. Iím not much a student of history, but this speech I think is an amazingly concise review of the world in which we live that stands up to most acclaimed addresses of the past. I havenít seen/heard any footage, but itís my hunch that it reads better as an essay than delivered as a speech. People can become engulfed in their idea of how the world should work, Obama does well at stepping back from that precarious ledge.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:25 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6297
Location: the barber of hard truths
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wonder if the nobel committee would like a do-over in light of recent events.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:05 pm
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Charlie Foxtrot



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1379
Location: Rochester, NY
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shambhala wrote:
wonder if the nobel committee would like a do-over in light of recent events.


Aide: Kissinger was awarded the Peace Prize

Obama: So it could have been worse

Aide: Yes, sir. It could have been an obscenity.

(Doonesbury)
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:06 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6297
Location: the barber of hard truths
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i mean he used the acceptance speech to defend war. that's a little orwellian.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:17 pm
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Smurf Stomper



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 755
Location: Zoo Town
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shambhala wrote:
i mean he used the acceptance speech to defend war. that's a little orwellian.


No kidding. I've been very disappointed with the President so far. I'm hoping it's all some sort of master strategy that I'm not smart enough to understand.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:21 pm
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mzehe916



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 4542
Location: Switzerland
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I heard part of it on my drive today....it sounded like a speech. I don't know. I mean, I like the guy, but Shania Twain said it best, "he don't impress me much."
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:21 pm
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Smurf Stomper



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 755
Location: Zoo Town
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Not sure where to post this, but I thought it would work in here. Check out this article on Obama's sellout to Wall Street. Really interesting stuff but it makes me so frustrated with our system.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/31234647/obamas_big_sellout/
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:56 pm
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McLirious



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 533
Location: Portland, OR
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shambhala wrote:
i mean he used the acceptance speech to defend war. that's a little orwellian.


I find this to be a misattribution; if anything, Iíd replace ďdefendĒ with ďacceptĒ. And I see nothing Orwellian about being honest. I for one didnít come away with anything to the effect that war is peace, etc.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:15 pm
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WrathChild



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 953
Location: Reno eNVy
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Our politicians are bought by the wealthy to serve the wealthy. It's no wonder there's such a huge disconnect between Washington and the people its charged to represent. I don't blame Obama any more than the rest of our elected officials. Although his humble beginnings gave me false hope. :(
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:28 pm
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Disharmony



Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 2993
Location: Buried in Minnesota dirt.
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Bah. Fuck Obama.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:11 pm
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Joshua Kane



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 670
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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War, like most human conditions, is an absolute paradox - everyone hates it and yet does it at some point in their life - whether with bullets fists money or words. Thus, if any leader is to talk honestly about war, his discussion will inevitably be paradoxical.

And what better leader and venue for an honest discussion of the paradoxes of war & peace then this particular leader & venue? This award being imposed on Obama like some politcized wish hanging in the wind; they've disgraced the award immeasurably.

Obama did not ask for or want this, he never claimed to be a pacifist... people, he necver claimed to be against war generally. I very much appreciate and welcome Obama's honest discussion of perhaps the deepest of all paradoxes in the human condition at this stage in global affairs.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:04 pm
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sparrow



Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 331
Location: stolen land, the place where spirits get eaten.
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Joshua Kane wrote:
War, like most human conditions, is an absolute paradox - everyone hates it and yet does it at some point in their life - whether with bullets fists money or words. Thus, if any leader is to talk honestly about war, his discussion will inevitably be paradoxical.

And what better leader and venue for an honest discussion of the paradoxes of war & peace then this particular leader & venue? This award being imposed on Obama like some politicized wish hanging in the wind; they've disgraced the award immeasurably.

Obama did not ask for or want this, he never claimed to be a pacifist... people, he never claimed to be against war generally. I very much appreciate and welcome Obama's honest discussion of perhaps the deepest of all paradoxes in the human condition at this stage in global affairs.


youre a pretty smart guy josh but i dont buy this at all. weve all done it? with words? no thats an argument. with fists? no thats a fight. with bullets? no thats murder. with money? no thats wage slavery. one on one human conflicts have a much different nature than industrialized warfare

violence begets violence man. it needs to end before true peace can happen. its not that i dont like obama, its that i dont like any leader of any empire. obama didnt ask for this? then he shouldnt continue it. i very much appreciate and welcome kucinich's honest discussion of how mad, illegal, and unjust this war is in regards to global affairs.

have we not seen enough war in history? in our lifetimes? to know that no one really ever wins war and no wars are just or good. these are lives we are talking about not fist fights or arguments.

dont you think if we spent half the amount of time and money we spend on war to help feed people and make positive impacts on the global community, it would have a deeply profound and lasting effect on how the world interacts with itself, from that point on?
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:17 pm
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Joshua Kane



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 670
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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sparrow wrote:
Joshua Kane wrote:
War, like most human conditions, is an absolute paradox - everyone hates it and yet does it at some point in their life - whether with bullets fists money or words. Thus, if any leader is to talk honestly about war, his discussion will inevitably be paradoxical.

And what better leader and venue for an honest discussion of the paradoxes of war & peace then this particular leader & venue? This award being imposed on Obama like some politicized wish hanging in the wind; they've disgraced the award immeasurably.

Obama did not ask for or want this, he never claimed to be a pacifist... people, he never claimed to be against war generally. I very much appreciate and welcome Obama's honest discussion of perhaps the deepest of all paradoxes in the human condition at this stage in global affairs.


youre a pretty smart guy josh but i dont buy this at all. weve all done it? with words? no thats an argument. with fists? no thats a fight. with bullets? no thats murder. with money? no thats wage slavery.

violence begets violence man. it needs to end before true peace can happen. its not that i dont like obama, its that i dont like any leader of any empire. obama didnt ask for this? then he shouldnt continue it. i very much appreciate and welcome kucinich's honest discussion of how mad, illegal, and unjust this war is in regards to global affairs.

have we not seen enough war in history? in our lifetimes? to know that no one really ever wins war and no wars are just or good. these are lives we are talking about not fist fights or arguments.

dont you think if we spent half the amount of time and money we spend on war to help feed people and make positive impacts on the global community, it would have a deeply profound and lasting effect on how the world interacts with itself, from that point on?


Sparrow, I cannot, indeed I refuse, to disagree with the spirit of your comment. In fact, I would like to think we are generally reading from the same book, but have yet to land on the same page. If you read my comment again, I hope you will see that I am discussing not what should be, but what I beieve is. You are discussing what should be. I agree with your 'should be' and understand if your perceptions of 'what is' differ from mine. Nevertheless, the question remains how do we get from here to your 'should be'.

Personlly I believe humanity is moving towards your 'should be', slowly, in the same paradoxical fits and starts, lurches and crises, that have marked all aspects of human progress. This weird occasion of Obama getting the peace prize and then utilizing the venue to discuss the uses and paradoxes of war indicates to me that humanity is very much on course to meet up with your 'should be' at some point in the future, although probably not in our lifetimes. I do believe we will see major significant steps in that direction soon though. Time will tell. I can offer no more for now on that belief.

As to your point about national war differing from individuals' wars of words, it is true they do differ. But in my life I have found it incredibly useful to view the social world as layers upon layers of complexity, organized mainly around microcosms of similar social forms. Many times I find my existance, my choices and decisions, mimic those facing nations and major organizations. When confronted, there is a set of options available to me not that dissimilar to those available to a nation. Discuss, coerce, raise a fist, get a gun, get some friends, get them guns, you get the point. At many levels, a gang and a government are no different (and that makes me 1%, you as well I bet).

In anycase, the fact remains that war is a paradoxical human condition, and thus any leader discussing it will be dealing with extrme paradox. Paradox is not automatically Orwellian, and although I'm ending my comment with this point, it was actually the one that drove me to comment originally.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:18 pm
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WrathChild



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 953
Location: Reno eNVy
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Josh, what are your thoughts on Goldman Sachs responsibility for the current recession? Who would you side with more, Matt Taibbi or Megan Mcardle?
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:37 pm
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sparrow



Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 331
Location: stolen land, the place where spirits get eaten.
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josh, yeah you do make a valid point with your micro-macro comparison with the exception of most of industrialized warfares motives. so i actually agreed with you unconsciously when i wrote 'violence begets violence'. in that sense i agree wholly. now that youve expanded upon youre original point i can see your perspective a bit clearer and though i disagree with war no matter what the conditions are, except maybe all out invasion on the national territory, your sentiment does make sense politically. i guess i shouldnt expect our government to be the entity to employ a project of peace anyway, given its record. i think that is something that has and will be motivated by citizenry, which is why i think people shouldnt let our leader do what may make sense in a political vein.

edit:

id like to further conclude that even though i agree that war is paradoxical, its still quite a perversion to give a peace prize to someone who recently passed a defense budget that broke the previous all-time high mark. yes we still need weapons in an armed world but that many? its only an escalation of the problem.
Post Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:09 pm
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