GrantherBirdly
D&D addict
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 3122
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sandman00000 wrote:
What is the problem with our health care system that requires overhaulinjg/dramatic reform?
One problem is those without insurance obviously. What about those with insurance? Do those insurance policies need reform?
What else is wrong?
3/4 of people who go bankrupt due to medical expenses HAVE insurance. So yes, those with insurance are also getting fucked. |
Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:57 pm |
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redball
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6850
Location: Northern New Jersey |
Well, that wasn't so great. |
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:05 pm |
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futuristxen
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19343
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt |
redball wrote:
Well, that wasn't so great.
Why do you say that? He said basically exactly what you said all morning.
And the speech as an oratory performance was pretty spectacular. He basically summed up what american liberalism is all about in the final 5 minutes.
I thought it cut through a lot of the crap. |
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:38 pm |
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redball
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6850
Location: Northern New Jersey |
Yeah, I liked that part. He didn't really push to give anything its teeth back. "His" plan is essentially the one Taibbi outlined, flaws and all. Thus, I think that while he agreed with me on a lot of points he also vindicated the naysayers in this thread to a great extent. |
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:55 pm |
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shambhala
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6297
Location: the barber of hard truths |
I despise Matt Taibbi's writing style. And the fact that he only seems to be able to write about politics in a very linear way. It's like yellow journalism for stoners. |
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:56 pm |
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futuristxen
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19343
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt |
redball wrote:
Yeah, I liked that part. He didn't really push to give anything its teeth back. "His" plan is essentially the one Taibbi outlined, flaws and all. Thus, I think that while he agreed with me on a lot of points he also vindicated the naysayers in this thread to a great extent.
There's never going to be a perfect bill. The democratic process is specifically set up against it. But I think what Obama was advocating would be a HUGE deal, and affect positively a lot of lives, including my own.
I honestly don't see why the bill Obama is advocating can't get support from someone like McCain.
I thought it was smart for Obama to call out republicans who in the past have worked on healthcare, and hopefully convince them to support what at the end of the day is a very reasonable bill. |
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:03 pm |
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Joshua Kane
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 670
Location: Carlsbad, CA |
I'd say last night Obama was... better. A step in the right direction, he needs to be tougher now. |
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:30 am |
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note1
Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: providence |
yeah it was definetely a step in the right direction, but as we can see from the way even those impolite congressmen acted, it's all uphill from here. Anyone else wishing for Obama to take the low road right then and call that guy out? I guess it's more presidential to move on, but damn would have felt good to let him have it. Can I request mancabbage to come into this thread and call that congressmen a series of dirty english slang words? I always enjoy his insults.
Also a bit surprised redball wasn't happier with that speech. I thought that would have been just what you were asking for. |
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:38 am |
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yourREIGNisOVER
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 515
Location: min-eh-sorta |
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Max fucking Baucus.
From 8/29/09:
Quote:
In a conference call with Montana Democratic central committee chairs last week, Baucus reaffirmed his stance on the most divisive issue in the health care debate. "I want a public option, too!" said the Montana Democrat.
Later, when several county chairs said they didn't want a health care system in place where private insurance companies were essentially allowed to police themselves, Baucus responded, "Neither do I."
Yesterday just before Obama's speech:
Quote:
But he made clear that the so-called "public option" would not be part of any deal with his name on it.
"The public option cannot pass the Senate," Baucus said. "I could be wrong, but it's my belief that the public option cannot pass."
This is what $2,880,631 in campaign contributions from the health care industry get us. I've emailed him and my representatives multiple times. Piece of shit. Whether futile at this point or not, let this motherfucker know that Americans need this option. Maybe his conscious will re-appear.
http://baucus.senate.gov/contact/emailForm.cfm?subj=issue |
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:12 am |
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futuristxen
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19343
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt |
If you can't do the public option, why not implement something that approximates it's effect? It's clear that the word "public option" is the problem.
Like Obama said, find some kind of cost control measure to replace the public option that does what it does if you can't pass the public option.
It's not rocket science.
And there's a lot of other components to the bill that are arguably more important than the public option. |
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:45 pm |
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Alan Hague
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 617
Location: http://askthedead.bandcamp.com |
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Once again, Dennis Kucinich reminds me why he should've been elected president:
"Dear Friends,
The President's health care policy speech was brilliant but when you get into the details another picture emerges. Unfortunately, at this point, the proposal outlined last night is the ultimate corporate giveaway. It's not health care, it’s insurance care. As many as thirty million new customers for an insurance industry which makes money not providing health care. The only way this country will see true health is by investing in real health care. That is the essence of HR676, the single payer bill.
The President opened his speech speaking of how we have solved the economic crisis - how? By rewarding those who caused the crash! Is this the way we solve the health care crisis? Rewarding the insurance companies? Helping insurance and pharmaceutical stock to soar, propping up markets while skimping on health care? The very same system which caused the health care crisis is being rewarded with the guarantee of tens of millions of new customers mandated - by law - to have health care. The latest plan rewards the very companies that have denied treatment, denied care, denied drug coverage while their profits grow daily.
The only way this country will see true sustainable economic recovery is through investment in the real economy, priming the pump through job creation. The only way this country will see true health is by investing in real health care.
The "public option" has been relegated to insignificance. What we will now get is yet another "private option", not a public option, because single-payer is "off the table." We the people deserve better. We have been faced with general warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan - multi-trillion dollar ballouts for arms merchants, $12 trillion in bailouts for Wall Street, bailouts to coal and nuclear industries, and now proposed huge subsidies for the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. What's wrong with this picture? Everything!
Please join our national conference call tonight at 1-800-230-1096. Contribute to the start up. Join the movement. Sign the online petition. We must organize for the long term success of a state and national single payer movement. I need your help to initiate this action. If you believe, as I do, that we can and must begin a new long-term state-by-state grassroots effort to create a single-payer, not-for-profit health care system, please contribute now at Kucinich.us"
For anybody interested, his petition is right here:
http://healthcare.kucinich.us/petition/ |
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:33 pm |
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futuristxen
Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19343
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt |
If Kucinich had been the democratic nominee, we would not even be talking about healthcare, because John McCain would be president, and Sarah Palin would be vice president.
*shudder*
But yeah, Kucinich is on point as always. But I also think he's manipulating the issue as well. Yes the inusurance industry will get new customers. But they will have to better serve those customers, get taxed on the top end, and face regulation like they've never seen before.
So I'm not sure that it's a give away.
I just think the President, as he said last night, doesn't believe in tossing everything out. He wants to accentuate what works in the system, and get rid of what doesn't. |
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:50 pm |
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