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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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duck_shoe



Joined: 15 Sep 2002
Posts: 1362
Location: Right here, fool.
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cakes wrote:
for those of you who are residing in other countries, what is your honest opinion on your healthcare? i'm tired of hearing how "all canadians" feel. a dude with a sore thumb and a dude with cancer are most likely going to differ in opinion.


4 years ago I broke my cheekbone(well, somebody else broke it for me), I got my surgery exactly 7 days after the incident on the government dime and I am very pleased with how everything turned out.

The Canadian healthcare system isn't perfect but overall I think it's pretty good. It seems to be pretty rare that a person who has urgent needs does not get cared for in a timely manner.
Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:32 am
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cakes



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2586
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what keeps all private insurers at such high costs? what is it that stops them from offering cheaper coverage to get more people to chose them?
Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:45 am
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duck_shoe



Joined: 15 Sep 2002
Posts: 1362
Location: Right here, fool.
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Greed. They're in it to make money, not take care of people. More people = more procedures to cover = less profit.
Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:56 am
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cakes



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2586
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duck_shoe wrote:
Greed. They're in it to make money, not take care of people. More people = more procedures to cover = less profit.
hmmm... more people could also equal more healthy people who bring in money and don't require procedures, no? like the kids here who are living fine for years on ibuprofin. what if they decide not to cover some of the more expensive procedures or increase a deductable for a cheaper option? there is an alliance for non-profit insurers (which of course doesn't always mean lower costs). but how cheap could it really be? a government system most likely doesn't mean the procedures suddenly cost less money, just that it's coming from an alternative source, no? will tightening the market make anything cheaper or have the opposite effect? where will it come from? how high are canadian taxes anyway?

i don't completely see why it's not like car or renters insurance that you can purchase on your own, but it seems that some companies are working towards this? maybe because it's so expensive, but if no one bought it, they'd be forced to change something. i donno...

i'm willing to pay for the insurance to an extent because despite the fact that it's for my health, i'm still technically being provided a service that requires trained individuals and supplies that can't be reused but need to be accessible instantly. i spend money on things to upkeep my health, like vitamins, gym access, and better running shoes, etc.

i agree, surgeons don't need to make $200,000+ a year, but i wouldn't call it an easy breezy job. and that has nothing to do with the insurance, does it? but that's part of what the insurance is paying for, no? maybe some doctors get into it for the money, but what if they're still some of the best?

i'm honestly asking these questions and not assuming much because i'm not a hospital treasurer.
Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:22 am
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corporateslave



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Lawrence, KS
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cakes wrote:
what keeps all private insurers at such high costs? what is it that stops them from offering cheaper coverage to get more people to chose them?


There aren't a lot to choose from in a lot of areas. I read that, in Maine for example, there are only two companies to choose from. And generally you can pay a very small amount if you wish, but it's a tradeoff for significantly less coverage.

Right now I pay about $100 a month to Blue Cross and Blue Shield, and they cover 80% of any medical costs over $1000 this year and 100% of costs totaling more than $5000 for the year. They cover a portion of office visits too, but that's about it. No medication coverage at all, and I pay the full amount of any procedures or treatment until I've been billed $1000. I could find a cheaper plan with them and have significantly less coverage, or try to find another company who is cheaper but more than likely also provides less coverage than I have now.
Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:27 am
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sparrow



Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 331
Location: stolen land, the place where spirits get eaten.
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http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2004-09-29-nonprofit-salaries_x.htm

http://www.kaiserpapershawaii.org/kaiserwatch.htm

http://kaiserpapers.org/minnesota.html

http://histalk.blog-city.com/internal_email_criticizing_kaisers_healthconnect_lands_emplo.htm


Last edited by sparrow on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:31 am
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cakes



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2586
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good points.

what's to stop government employees from getting paid well? it's not like the only people who are overly compensated are in the private sector, no?

is it ethical to regulate salaries? how do you decide how much something or someone is worth?
Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:38 am
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sparrow



Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 331
Location: stolen land, the place where spirits get eaten.
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oo

Last edited by sparrow on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:47 am
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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cakes wrote:
i agree, surgeons don't need to make $200,000+ a year


"Need" is irrelevant and subjective. Of all the boggling career payscales floating around in our wretchedly designed economy, doctors' salaries are, I think, easily one of the most fair if you are considering the value of the services performed and the personal risk posed to the doctor in our litigious society if he makes any error, however legitimate. But yeah:



Quote:

and that has nothing to do with the insurance, does it?


Bingo.
Post Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:02 pm
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cakes



Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2586
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yes, it is subjective. that's the point in a way, because deciding what to charge for a medical procedure may or may not be as well. i'm not pretending to know.

in terms of having anything to do with insurance, i kind of meant that as a real question. it very well could if part of that goes towards paying a salary, unless that comes from a grant or whatnot. i don't know, do you? though i think $200,000 is still a pretty comfortable pay check, i don't think that there should be a salary cap and i don't really have a massive problem with surgeons making money (i agree it's a ridiculously hard job. one of the brain surgeons here never takes a break during his surgeries and they can last 8+ hours).

however, i do have an issue with people looking less at what the money is going towards and simply who is going to pay it. how much should insurance really cost? not just for the individual, but the package including the part that an employer may pay now. i'm not asking these questions implying anything, i'm really asking them.
Post Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:25 pm
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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cakes wrote:
in terms of having anything to do with insurance, i kind of meant that as a real question.


From what I understand, in our health care system neither a doctor's nor physician's salary is linked to insurance prices/companies. There are schemes wherein doctors are payed additional sums dependent on the number or cost of procedures or medicines they prescribe, and these costs are ultimately passed on through higher insurance fees, but that's the closest commonly occurring phenomena I know of. I don't think salary determines or is determined by insurance costs in at least the majority of cases.
Post Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:36 pm
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The Count



Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 1558
Location: Chapel Hill
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cakes wrote:

i agree, surgeons don't need to make $200,000+ a year,


Of all the professions in the world, surgeon is the one that I would have absolutely no reservation paying anything they asked.
Post Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:28 pm
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corporateslave



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Lawrence, KS
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How are doctor's salaries creeping into the conversation? It has nothing to do with insurance at all... except the insurance THEY have to pay to cover any liability suits is outrageous. Ever since people figured out they could try to sue for just about anything done in a hospital doctor's insurance rates have skyrocketed and their salaries have not really reflected that rise. Also, can you imagine how intensely specialized a surgeon's practice is? They are the highest paid medical practitioners because they are in very, very expensive school for ten years learning how to cut people open and safely re-arrange whatever's in there.
Post Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:38 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19373
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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Why don't we just pay the doctor's salaries with the health insurance executives salaries?
Post Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:23 pm
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