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So... what's up with healthcare exactly?
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
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Basilisk wrote:
I'm not real clear what's going on either. My buddy at work likes right-wing radio, and I listen as well just to see what they're saying.
Here are the concerns I'm hearing:
1) the gov't sucks at running things, there's no reason healthcare will be different
2) gov't healthcare will not be an option. gov't healthcare will be mandatory. Except for congressmen/senators/other politicians. They can keep their current plans
3) The gov't will be choosing what research gets funded (I'm clear on this one- aren't they sorta doing that already? This won't stop private research, right?)
4) The gov't will establish a commission, which more or less chooses if you're worthy of care. This includes drugs and surgery
5) Because the healthcare will be mandatory, you're screwed on #4 even if you want to pay for it yourself
6) Illegal immigrants will get the healthcare

None of these make sense to me except #1. Anyone willing to dispel these ideas would be much appreciated


#1. The government sucks at running things? That's hilarious considering that the police, fire, and all sorts of other projects are managed by state and local government bodies. Medicare is run by the government. Veterans health care is run by the goverment, etc. The last point is kind of tricky to bring up because they Repugs cut funding for vets and then pointed to the VA as an example of how terrible government funded programs are. I'd point that out to your friend.

#2. Straight up lie. Tell the dude to actually read the bill for himself and he'd see this wasn't true.

#3. Who does he think cut funding for stem cell research? It certainly wasn't Jimbo the Poodle Man. Private research wouldn't be effected unless it went beyond the boundaries set by already existing laws.

#4. Nope. Not even sure where he got this from. If he is talking about the National Insurance Exchange, he completely misunderstood the concept of the proposed system (read: he had smoke blown up his ass by Rush, Hannity, and co.).

#5. I'm not sure about this mandatory insurance thing. I'm pretty sure that this is not the case, but I might be wrong. Besides if it is a mandatory system, people will be able to afford coverage based on their income.

#6. Not sure about this either.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:30 am
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xGasPricesx



Joined: 23 May 2008
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I'm amazed this hasn't been posted yet. (Highlight: Billy Kristol himself admits that the government currently runs one of the best health care plans in the country.)
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:44 am
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angrymushroom



Joined: 13 Mar 2003
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poisonfree wrote:


People that use canada as an argument as for why we shouldn't have universal healthcare drive me nuts. Canada (is ranked about 30 in the list of worlds top ranking healthcare, USA is ranked like 37 i think) What happened to patriotism? why do they assume we should be aiming so low on the totem pole of "successful" healthcare.

I love Canada, I have friends who love their health care there, but fuck that, I want FRANCE TYPE SHIT. France is ranked #1 by the World Health Organization. I want that shit. Why do these idiots think we need to be only 7 rungs better, I mean I would be happy with that, but that's not what I want, that's not what my Grandparents need, that's not what my parents need, and that's not what the homeless need. Wee need that top rank sheeyat!



Yes, France has some awesome healthcare.
I already get awesome healthcare for my family in the states,
not moving to Canada for the healthcare,
moving for a change!
My fiance is part Canadian and it's beautiful there, the school systems
will undoubtedly be better than here in LA and the air is cleaner.

One of my friends was in the Steelers and moved to Canada and plays for their professional football league -
he loooooves it there as does anyone I know that has moved.

I was also considering Portland, Seattle or Honolulu but Vancouver won.
Plus we have family there that can babysit sometimes!
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:00 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
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xGasPricesx wrote:
I'm amazed this hasn't been posted yet. (Highlight: Billy Kristol himself admits that the government currently runs one of the best health care plans in the country.)



Kristol is a fucking shill, a fucking liar and one of the real fucking terrorists in this country.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:05 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/11/olbermann-slams-palin-for_n_256207.html

Seriously, its time to start calling these knuckle dragging morons by their name.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:32 am
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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neveragainlikesheep wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/11/olbermann-slams-palin-for_n_256207.html

Seriously, its time to start calling these knuckle dragging morons by their name.


Hooooly shit that was beautiful.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:26 am
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note1



Joined: 10 Jul 2002
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Quote:

they said hillary over reached, but obama's plan is too soft. i guess they're just pushing through the best thing they can get passed, but it's pretty pathetic.



Yeah Obama just kinda punted the whole thing to Congress right? He doesn't back a specific plan, I just know that when Walmart signed on for healthcare reform we weren't getting anything to be excited about. Who knows though maybe this is the first step to more comprehensive change down the line...i guess you have to crack the door open first.

I'm guessing the end result isn't a game changer financially for most people. I'm insured through work and I don't think that will change.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:27 am
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
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http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/08/not-all-socialist-countries-are-alike.html

This was entertaining.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:34 am
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neveragainlikesheep



Joined: 22 May 2008
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note1 wrote:

Quote:

they said hillary over reached, but obama's plan is too soft. i guess they're just pushing through the best thing they can get passed, but it's pretty pathetic.



Yeah Obama just kinda punted the whole thing to Congress right? He doesn't back a specific plan, I just know that when Walmart signed on for healthcare reform we weren't getting anything to be excited about. Who knows though maybe this is the first step to more comprehensive change down the line...i guess you have to crack the door open first.


I think that is the Administrations' thinking. At this point any progress is tons of progress. Though this isn't as much as most people would like, it will cover a significant amount of people who don't have coverage. That is a pretty nice first leap into reform.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:15 am
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The Count



Joined: 26 May 2006
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This whole debate makes me want to bury my head in the sand.

The crazy right-wingers who adopt the aggressive tactics of shouting down conversation.

The left-wing pundits who demonize the right for dealing with healthcare using tactics that they themselves invented and implemented for decades.

The fact that as it is now, no one is actually talking about honest concerns of reform, rather we're talking about people yelling.

I support a government option, hell i'd even be open to a single-payer plan. But that doesn't mean that I don't have some heavy reservations. Medicare and Social Security are both closing in on being broke. I'll probably never see a social security check in my lifetime. Both are state-run ponzi schemes. So I think questioning the ability of the federal government to implement and SUSTAINABLY run a healthcare plan is unquestionably valid.

Second, the left needs to stop acting like there will be as much free health care for who ever wants it if a public-option (or single-payer) passes. As much as the "death panels" are comedy gold, there is a truth behind the fear. That truth being that there will always be rationing of healthcare. We ration health care right now, only we do it with money. We will pay for the things that we declare as "worth the cost". If we were to move to a more centralized system, decisions would HAVE to be made. There would have to be denied claims and ethical dilemmas. These things are already here, by moving to a centralized plan the government be inheriting them. This is a long way off from the "death panel", but the left flat out refusing to address the topic is infuriating.

Thirdly, I've lived in europe for an extended period of time, in a country that has a highly centralized medical system. I was far from impressed with the health care that I received. I think that such a system could work, but I don't know if I'm confident in the leadership of this country to actually pull it off.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:28 pm
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neveragainlikesheep



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The Count wrote:
This whole debate makes me want to bury my head in the sand.

The crazy right-wingers who adopt the aggressive tactics of shouting down conversation.

The left-wing pundits who demonize the right for dealing with healthcare using tactics that they themselves invented and implemented for decades.

The fact that as it is now, no one is actually talking about honest concerns of reform, rather we're talking about people yelling.

I support a government option, hell i'd even be open to a single-payer plan. But that doesn't mean that I don't have some heavy reservations. Medicare and Social Security are both closing in on being broke. I'll probably never see a social security check in my lifetime. Both are state-run ponzi schemes. So I think questioning the ability of the federal government to implement and SUSTAINABLY run a healthcare plan is unquestionably valid.

Second, the left needs to stop acting like there will be as much free health care for who ever wants it if a public-option (or single-payer) passes. As much as the "death panels" are comedy gold, there is a truth behind the fear. That truth being that there will always be rationing of healthcare. We ration health care right now, only we do it with money. We will pay for the things that we declare as "worth the cost". If we were to move to a more centralized system, decisions would HAVE to be made. There would have to be denied claims and ethical dilemmas. These things are already here, by moving to a centralized plan the government be inheriting them. This is a long way off from the "death panel", but the left flat out refusing to address the topic is infuriating.

Thirdly, I've lived in europe for an extended period of time, in a country that has a highly centralized medical system. I was far from impressed with the health care that I received. I think that such a system could work, but I don't know if I'm confident in the leadership of this country to actually pull it off.


1. Veteran's health care.

2. There's no truth behind that particular fear. People are being denied claims NOW without the panels and that is a direct product of the broken system we have in place. So what are the death panels like in Canada, Norway and the rest of the world?

3. That's great, 50 million people in this country have no health care. What do you have to say to them?
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:39 pm
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mancabbage



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what country count?

My family would be flat broke living on streets with all the shit we would have had to have paid for if we didn't have the nhs and fuck.. my mother prolly dead - she had cancer at a time when we had balifs knocking at our door. There's no way we would have been able to afford insurance. I dont care about tax at all, im paying shit back far as im concerned

Nhs ain't perfect, by a long way (getting fucking hocus pocus homeopathic shit on nhs wtf).. but bah, its good.
Post Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:30 pm
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crash



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http://exiledonline.com/colonel-klinks-tea-party-clowns-uninsured-rightwinger-fakes-injuries-seeks-donations-hires-ambulance-chaser/
Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:26 am
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crash



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double penetration
Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:30 am
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Majawala



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mancabbage wrote:


Nhs ain't perfect, by a long way (getting fucking hocus pocus homeopathic shit on nhs wtf).. but bah, its good.


i bet cause its cheap as and lots of studies have shown the power of the placebo effect.
Post Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:53 am
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