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Fast typing rant about the war. Whatever.
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
Fast typing rant about the war. Whatever.  Reply with quote  

So it looks like we are getting to the point where we give the iraqi people a chance at our kinda freedom... There were reports today that the people were cheering and kissing pictures of Bush.... as well as some claiming they hate him.

Just like America.


Here is the thing though.... at least now they will be able to sit there and bitch about it without having to worry about getting gassed the fuck up like the kurds.


I'm just posting this for the anti-war people.... I'm not all pro-war... but war is sometimes necessary. It is so fucking EASY to sit there and be mr. illuminated pacifist who is above the harming of others... ITS SO FUCKING EASY AND OBVIOUS. We all want peace, we don't want people to die... but you motherfuckers are devious. These anti-war people, instead of espousing their opinion and leaving it at that, many go on to insinuate that anyone who isn't anti-war is some kind of murdering, hateful idiot who has no sense of what is right in this world. We don't live in that kind of world and if we ever do, we will probably spend our days reading history books about when we did. War got us here and war will help us leave here.

I am happy for the Iraqi people... and the ones who are still with Hussein will soon see that they will be happier soon.

Does this mean America really gives a shit about them... no, not at all... But that doesn't mean what has happened is all bad.

Were there kids and moms and dads who died horrible deaths to get Hussein out of there? Yes. Are there people still alive now who would have lived gruesome and horrible lives under hussein, but won't now? Yes.

There is no right or wrong. Only time will tell if changing the government in iraq was the right thing to do... but please, Bush is NOT this evil. Bush is a moron, yes. Bush has secret family powers we can only dream of, yes. Bush is a bitch, yes. But he isn't fucking hitler and everytime I see a photoshop picture of Bush's likeness being compared somehow to hitler I get a knot in my stomach for all the people who dealt with hitler.

I get the sense that it is fun for people to hate bush... especially teenagers who have never cared about politics until now, and BAM... you guys get a front row seat to the most interesting political time since Watergate. It also feels good to disagree with mom and dad, doesn't it Billy.

I think Bush is one of the worst presidents we have ever had. Absolutely. But if it ends up that the Iraqi people on the whole are happier in the long run that this has happened, then that is what is important. If, in five to ten years, the majority of the Iraqi people publicly support this new government, then all you anti-war people are wrong. Period. Don't forget that. I know I'd rather live here than there... and everytime one of you makes Saddam out to be this innocent victim, I want to wring your fucking necks, all of you. Read up on your history. Even the most globally conscious, liberal intellectuals will tell you that Saddam is fucked in the head.

Okay, I'm done, fuck it. Sorry.





PEACE
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:14 pm
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play_the_hater



Joined: 21 Mar 2003
Posts: 26
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thanks for stating the obvious..

now i can go on living that a tyrant has been knocked off,
only to be replaced by another type of tyranny..

but a type of tyranny that the good ol' usa approves of
and makes profits off too of course....
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:00 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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You do make some good points. However.

1. So called "representative democracy" in Iraq will not work. The majority of people in Iraq are Shi'ite muslim, and will not accept "seperation of church and state" the way we have it. They will want a government similar to Iran's....and will become closer to Iran. This doesn't sit well with us, I'm sure you realize this.
2. Millions of people will have died by the end of this due to starvation and lack of medical supplies. Are the ends worth the means? If we'd waited a year and tried to work something out, could we have gotten rid of Saddam without sacrificing those millions?

You make good points, but those are two things to think about.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:06 pm
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Succintroundabout



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 130
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
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Djdee, the version of the Shi'a religion common in Iraq does not support the union of church and state-they have a much more scholarly approach to Islam there.
Your "millions" figure is quite similar to the numbers people initially suggested would die in the bombing campaign. Do I need to point out how foolish those people look now, when the numbers they were pushing were 3 orders of magnitude greater than they are in reality?

play the hater:
People make vague comments such as this, "but a type of tyranny that the good ol' usa approves of and makes profits off too of course...." when in reality they have no idea what is going on, but intend to justify their positions by any means. You know very well that "the USA" can not possibly "make profits" from this war, but you use those words because they are inflammatory. Which corporations will be profiting from this, which tyrant will be instated? You have no idea, and neither do I. Keep it real. Why not point out some facts to us instead, rather than spitting out assumption after assumption. I've heard enough over the last 2 months that sound incredibly stupid today; please make the pain go away.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:24 pm
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UncleSylis



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Posts: 128
Location: Philly
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Nice to see an evenhanded view for once. I don't believe we really have control of Iraq or even all of Baghdad at this point. We will, but there will still be more fighting and loss of life. Then at that point when we've calmed things down a bit in Iraq, we can look towards the future and the interim gov't. How Bush acts after the fighting is done may be more important than the fighting itself and everything that led up to it.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:38 pm
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ihaveagluegun



Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 907
Location: Austin, Tx
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djdee is sooooooo back! ha
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:42 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Succintroundabout wrote:
Djdee, the version of the Shi'a religion common in Iraq does not support the union of church and state-they have a much more scholarly approach to Islam there.


I'm not sure what you mean about "scholarly" approach to islam...Saudi Arabia has the most "scholarly" approach, seeing as they have the largest Muslim university in the world. I also don't get how you could generalize about the majority of shi'ite muslims in Iraq like that....Most muslims in the middle east don't want a representative government with seperation of mosque and state. Islamic law states that their government should be an islamic one. Most muslims in Iraq believe this.

Quote:


Your "millions" figure is quite similar to the numbers people initially suggested would die in the bombing campaign. Do I need to point out how foolish those people look now, when the numbers they were pushing were 3 orders of magnitude greater than they are in reality?


I don't know of any reliable source that claimed millions would die from bombing...certainly many THOUSANDS will die from bombing. But I believe it was the U.N. and various other world health organizations that said that without the food and medicine normally provided as foreign aid, literally millions would die of starvation and disease. There are verifiable reports out their from reliable organizations. I can look for some sources if you'd like.

Quote:


play the hater:
People make vague comments such as this, "but a type of tyranny that the good ol' usa approves of and makes profits off too of course...." when in reality they have no idea what is going on, but intend to justify their positions by any means. You know very well that "the USA" can not possibly "make profits" from this war, but you use those words because they are inflammatory. Which corporations will be profiting from this, which tyrant will be instated? You have no idea, and neither do I. Keep it real. Why not point out some facts to us instead, rather than spitting out assumption after assumption. I've heard enough over the last 2 months that sound incredibly stupid today; please make the pain go away.


Halliburton, Dick Cheney's "old" company, will profit from this. They won the bidding rights to Iraqi oil. This is a well known fact. CNN has reported it.


Last edited by Dee on Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:46 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
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What this all really boils down to is that tradition, in all its glory, is one of, if not the most dangerous human thought ever conceived.


Fuck tradition, fuck culture, fuck what you are used to. Everything in this world is based firmly on the ideas of men that lived hundreds if not thousands of years ago.

We need to collectively grow some balls and shake shit up... starting with the restructuring of the entire school system, from pre-school to post graduate work.

Whatever, don't get me started.....

As far as some of the points you guys are making... its all propaganda... propaganda works BOTH ways...

I think tonight's south park said everything i need to say in a humorous (the only way to really make a point) way... so I am going to shut down my soapbox now.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:46 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
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Djdee,

All we have to do is have the U.N. go in there... we separate america from the whole thing (yes, I know that is funny... as we will have iraq under our thumb now... but it is naive of you to think this isn't what has been happening and will happen until the world is unified.. that's human nature and we can't stop it.) If we allow the iraqi people to vote in whoever they want, then they should be happy. Iran doesn't even matter because Iran is next anyway once we prove that WHOOPS, it wasn't iraq that was gonna fund the terrorists, it was iran and their evil nukes (they are different than our beautiful blonde nukes)...

This is all just a big wwf match for us, they have their agenda, but they have to keep us happy with it, and the smarter of us realize it's all bullshit and we can either hate them and shit our pants everyday, or we can realize it and in some way, respect it. Every planet with intelligent life will either blow up or unify its people and sources completely in a streamlined government that should make every resource and dollar worth its absolute most so every human being can live the best life they can with the resources they are alotted in their individual lives.

It's funny... Communism's aim was unifying the globe under communism... and here we are, america... doing the same thing (at least I hope this is what's going on, if not, then I am some kind of conspiracy nutcase, shit) very, very, very slowly. We'll never live to see the completed result... but it's coming. If you think our control ends at the American border, you are an idiot. The whole thing with France is so fucking hilarious.... bitch, we own france. Part of the reason they hate us so much is because their school system isnt as evil and the smarter of them know what the fuck is coming. France, if the governments decided to screw the charade, would be our newest state tomorrow.

I dunno... I'm writing this stream of consciousness, so maybe it isnt making any sense. I guess my underlying idea is that the whole NWO thing... yeah, thats real. But not in the evil illuminati sense that everyone latches onto... when I think really hard... I can't really respect a planet that can't, after some period of time, unify completely. Until we do that we are fucking savages. So whatever, all I can hope is that those in power, deep down, want to do the right thing for humanity, and a lot of this bullshit we are seeing goes way beyond iraq or america, and its a means to a very legitimate end that they obviously cannot explain to the broad public. It COULD be a good thing, fuck, a great thing... the greatest thing ever. That is IF, the men truly manipulating everything are on some forefathers type ish, nahmsayin? If this truly is some weird conspiracy illuminati thing where they want to CONTROL the world instead of UNIFY it, then we are ALL FUCKED.

It's not like that though... I think every human being would do the right thing when it came to the fate of the entire planet.


Holy shit, I've been typing for a long ass time. Later.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:28 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
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oh, by the way... play_the_hater is a little bitch.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:33 pm
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sequence



Joined: 21 Jul 2002
Posts: 2182
Location: www.anteuppdx.com
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the issue I have is that you say that if in 10 years the Iraqi people are happy, the anti-war people were wrong. The thing is, I am not anti-war because I think that what we're doing in foreign countries won't provide certain peopl with a possible new start who had previously been stuck under shitty regimes. The issue I have with this current war is the precedent we are setting, if in 10 years we have not engaged in anymore pre-emptive strikes, and thousands of people haven't ended up dead because of American imperialism, than I will be wrong about one of my primary concerns with regards to this situation.

It is easy to be an armchair pacifist. I am not a pacifist. I support violent means in appropriate situations. However, the last 50 years of US military action hasn't been justified to me. I'll tell you when I think it.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:00 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Location: Wisconsin
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I can understand your point. But, you know...One could easily allow gross human rights violations as an attack. Does one have to attack an american for america to care a person is being attacked? Obviously not. Now, I'm not saying that the government cares about individuals and doesn't lie its ass off to get what it wants. But, I can gurantee you that the average iraqi will feel safer under a regime overseen by the U.N. instead of Saddam Hussein.

I agree with your opinion if you apply it to a country that is just sitting there minding its own business. If we roll into switzerland because we heard a rumor they liked terrorists, then absolutely, you are right.

I think it is the U.N.'s job to fuck up ANY government that is not respectful of its people. The fact that the U.N. didn't tell China what was up during the decades and decades of human rights violations is a much scarier precedent than our pre-emptive attack.

The one big mistake they made with this iraq war was connecting it to 9-11. We are all smart enough to realize the difference, and I was insulted by the whole thing. But they did that to mindfuck the average dolt into being behind a war part 2. This thing should have been done by Bush Sr.

So really... Let's start bitching about Big Bush, you know? WHAT A FUCKING IDIOT. WHAT A FUCK UP. FUCK YOU BUSH SR.
Post Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:29 pm
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maxamillion



Joined: 05 Sep 2002
Posts: 1040
Location: The Netherlands
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First of all I'm for war against Iraq but not this one (not this way).

Of course iraq should be set free but there is to much talk about this war.
We can't stop it anymore.....

So let's focus on the situation after this war.

Which country is next, and how will america deal with them.

This all boils down to this: How will america handle their foreign affairs after this war.

Will they show goodwill and start by liberating Israel???

Or are they just gonna attack another nation. Cause that will work in the short term but eventually world peaces get's further away and away.

The world isn't a city where you just pull down houses and build new ones

It takes years/ decades or centuries to build a democratie.......this can't be done by a war........

This war has probably only given terrorists another excuse to attack the innocint american people.

So instead of showing the world that america is looking out for the best interrest of the world they have shown yet again that they are out to "rule" the world just as they like it, not giving shit about others.

Welcome more anti american views........

the us goverment has a strange way of making friends.....sadly.....
Post Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:48 am
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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
Re: Fast typing rant about the war. Whatever.  Reply with quote  

SneebDotCom wrote:
It is so fucking EASY to sit there and be mr. illuminated pacifist who is above the harming of others...


One must keep in mind that it is similarly as easy to be an armchair general if you don't have to actually pick up a gun and fight.

I think 99% of us have no idea what it's really like for the Iraqi's and are speculating, whether it is about cats yelling "Support the Troops(tm)" or "No Blood for Oil(sm)"...we all seem to argue on our speculations as if they weren't baseless, too.

State (i.e. corporate) propaganda T.V. (CNN, etc) want you to see cheering Iraqis. Good - I'm glad they're happy and we can "Support our troops(tm)"...but does that mean the joy will last eternally? Things are going to get rough for these people, and hopefully they DO have better lives without Sadaam - as I'm relatively sure they will be (you can never be definative with any of this shit - give it a half a century and we'll know the real deal).

- Shane
Post Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:52 am
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Location: Wisconsin
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Shane, I respect your opinions and the way you present them.


Of course, ultimately, none of us really know what the fuck is going on, it's alllll conjecture... you are certainly right on the fact that we won't really know what the real deal is for another 50 years. But it's fun to pick a side and see where the chips fall... why not? We have no control anyway, might as well.

As for CNN... fuck, don't get me started. I was watching it real real early in the morning, 4am. And they had this guy on the phone in iraq, and these people were cheering and whooping... obviously a set situation right... so he goes on to claim how all these people were screaming "yes to bush, yes to blair, yes to america"... but then the reporter on the phone paused a second and blurted "but these are the kurds and they have never allied with saddam..." and then CLICK. He was tragically cut off. Even the newswoman had an odd smirk on her face when they shot back to her. I wish there was a website logging all the times CNN has done that bullshit... I've seen it happen at least five times.

Fuck CNN. What a joke the american news is... in a hundred years from now they will look at old tapes of the news and shake their heads just like we do when we read stuff about how ridiculously fucked the government was during the red scare.

We are almost getting to a society that is post-lying as far as the government goes. There will come a time when the average america is as informed as your standard young idealist with a lot of reading time on his/her hands. And this is my idea you fucks, no biting. Especially you Francis. But for real... we are getting there. Watching the news and the government is allllmost like watching the WWF. You know it's bullshit, but you just go along with it... and if anyone says its fake, you tell them to shut the fuck up because they are ruining it.

When the entire populous fully realizes all the bullshit being thrown at us, won't we become post-lying and wont the government have to stop lying so much just, if for no other reason, then to not look like lying dickheads to a nation finally smart enough to realize that these people on CNN are being cut off on purpose and everything else? I dunno, I'm ranting again, jesus christ... someone shut me up.
Post Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:36 pm
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