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C.R.A.Z.Y



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 2719
Location: Vote for me and i'll vote for you.
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Standoff emerges at polygamist ranch in Texas
183 children, women removed by state officials acting on abuse complaint

Ass -ociated press
updated 7:05 p.m. CT, Sat., April. 5, 2008

ELDORADO, Texas - Ambulances were being sent Saturday evening to a polygamist compound in West Texas as authorities prepare "for the worst" in a conflict with members of the compound.

Prosecutor Allison Palmer said sect leaders Saturday refused to let authorities search a temple for a 16-year-old member who reported being physically abused.

Palmer told the San Angelo Standard-Times that medical workers were being sent "in case this were to a go in a way that no one wants."

She said that law enforcers are "preparing for the worst."

A search warrant authorized troopers to enter the retreat run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are looking for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man.

183 children, women removed
Child welfare officials said earlier Saturday that they had removed nearly 200 women and children from the retreat, built by polygamist leader Warren Jeffs.

Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said 137 children and 46 women are being housed Saturday and interviewed. That's including the 52 girls removed the day before.

The investigation began with a call alleging physical abuse of a 16-year-old girl living there, Meisner said.

A search warrant authorized troopers to look for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man. The search warrant said the girl had a baby when she was 15.

On Friday afternoon, the Department of Public Safety officials began executing the search warrant.

A total of 52 girls, ages 6 months to 17 years, were bused away on Friday to be interviewed, but only 18 were immediately taken into state custody, said Meisner. No arrests had been made.

Meisner said welfare officials were looking for foster homes for the girls, most of whom have rarely been outside the insular world of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They were being housed for now at a civic center, she said.

"We're dealing with children that aren't accustomed to the outside world, so we're trying to be very sensitive to their needs," Meisner said.

The warrant seeks records dealing with the birth of children to a 16-year-old and any records listing a marriage between a 50-year-old man and the girl, according to the San Angelo Standard-Times, which cited court records released late Friday in Tom Green County. Prosecutors in Tom Green, a larger county north of Eldorado, were handling the case.

An arrest warrant was issued, but spokeswoman Tela Mange said she could not reveal whose name was on the warrant.

The ranch is north of the two-stoplight town of Eldorado, down a narrow paved road. Authorities blocked access to the compound's gate, keeping onlookers miles away.

Only the compound's 80-foot-tall, gleaming white temple is visible on the wind-swept desert horizon, but Vinger said the ranch has numerous buildings.

He did not know how many people live there, but local officials in 2006 put the number at about 150 as members of the reclusive church moved from a community on the Arizona-Utah line.

The congregation, known as FLDS, has been led by Jeffs since his father's death in 2002. It is one of several groups that split from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, based in Salt Lake City, decades after it renounced polygamy in 1890.

Jeffs serving prison sentence
In November, Jeffs was sentenced to two consecutive sentences of five years to life in prison in Utah for being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old girl who wed her cousin in an arranged marriage in 2001.

In Arizona, Jeffs is charged as an accomplice with four counts each of incest and sexual conduct with a minor stemming from two arranged marriages between teenage girls and their older male relatives. He is jailed in Kingman, Ariz., awaiting trial.

The group's retreat, about 160 miles northwest of San Antonio, is on a former exotic game ranch. The group bought the property in 2004 for $700,000 and began an ambitious construction program anchored by the temple.
Post Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:59 pm
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Charlie Foxtrot



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 1379
Location: Rochester, NY
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Who the fuck is letting these people buy ranches? No more ranches for nutjobs with "ambitious construction programs."
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:02 am
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pedavis



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1425
Location: Illinois, US
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i'd spit on the cadavers of these mindless monsters. pure disgust.
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:30 am
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MYOWNCLICHE



Joined: 25 Jan 2004
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Location: In side YOUR head
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I got such a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I read this.
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:32 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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The response seems so cowboy. Like they are just crossing all the T's to get to another Waco, Ruby Ridge situation.

I'm torn on this story between my belief that these people are being abused and mistreated, and my belief that even if they weren't the government would make up a story that they were just to go persecute some mormons. There's not a single thing I really feel okay to feel good about in this story.
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:02 pm
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Al



Joined: 01 Aug 2002
Posts: 315
Location: Seattle, WA
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yea i find it kind of troubling that the government is seizing busloads of women and kids for allegations of abuse against just one. why is this OK? i haven't seen any evidence whatsoever of a culture of sexual/physical abuse with these folks. Warren Jeffs got 2 LIFE SENTENCES for marrying a 14 year old to a 19 year old! does this seem just ?
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:21 pm
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Charlie Foxtrot



Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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Location: Rochester, NY
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Al wrote:
Warren Jeffs got 2 LIFE SENTENCES for marrying a 14 year old to a 19 year old! does this seem just ?



Quote:

In June 2005, Jeffs was charged with sexual assault on a minor and with conspiracy to commit sexual misconduct with a minor for allegedly arranging, in 2002, a marriage between a 14-year-old girl and a 19-year-old man who was already married. The girl, known as "Jane Doe IV" (Elissa Wall)[23] testified that she begged "Uncle Rulon" to let her wait until she was older, or choose another man for her. Rulon Jeffs was apparently "sympathetic", but Warren Jeffs was not, and she was forced to go through with the marriage. The man that she was to marry was apparently her first cousin. The 14-year-old alleged that her new husband raped her repeatedly, starting on their wedding night.


And he was a racist. And he evaded arrest. Two life sentences seems about right.

As for the rounding up people thing, in this case it seems necessary. Because they live in isolated, secretive communities the government has to bring everyone just to get an idea of the place. Maybe I would be sympathetic if this type of thing hadn't happened before. But it has.

And this never would have happened if the people had let them in. They are well within their right to refuse it, but this is how police investigations work. If you let them in they're gentler. If you say no and make them think you have something to hide, they come in with a warrant and search every nook and crannie.
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:38 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Al wrote:
yea i find it kind of troubling that the government is seizing busloads of women and kids for allegations of abuse against just one. why is this OK? ?


And they are splitting them up into foster homes, after that.

Let's pretend I wanted to destroy a group of people's culture--wouldn't this be how I would do it?

I dunno. The government has effed up too many times for me to just take this and be like "well if you say so".
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:48 pm
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
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If there is a tall tall fence on the property with motion detectors, barbed wire, and men with guns that keeps people from coming AND leaving I have a serious problem with all this.
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:34 pm
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breakfast



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 2893
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futuristxen wrote:


And they are splitting them up into foster homes, after that.




Which is clearly a worse fate than being married to a sexually abusive first cousin against your will?
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:36 pm
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
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Actually a foster home can be much, much worse.
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:37 pm
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breakfast



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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Dan Shay wrote:
Actually a foster home can be much, much worse.


So can any domestic situation. I'd still pick the foster home.
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:41 pm
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MYOWNCLICHE



Joined: 25 Jan 2004
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Because there are children involved I think you have to take any threat serious. We would be the first to complain if it wasn't handled that way and something bad happened to any one of those kids, so in a sense the law is doing what it has to cover themselves oh and they are probably looking out after the kids too but I am sure that is secondary to them.
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:01 pm
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C.R.A.Z.Y



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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Al wrote:
yea i find it kind of troubling that the government is seizing busloads of women and kids for allegations of abuse against just one. why is this OK? i haven't seen any evidence whatsoever of a culture of sexual/physical abuse with these folks. Warren Jeffs got 2 LIFE SENTENCES for marrying a 14 year old to a 19 year old! does this seem just ?


bigamy is illegal in america. this situation is almost sexual slavery in my mind. and a its illegal to wed a female under 16 in texas. most children are not mature enough to understand the contract of marriage let alone consent to it, and often, many girls as young as 14 haven't even fully reached puberty yet. :-(

sometimes the law does have its purposes, esp when it comes to protecting women and children, and i dont think that in this case they are persecuting the mormons, they were attempting to find a pregnant minor child and prosecute a FUNDAMENTALIST mormon who was using persecution accusations as his shield...to cover up several illegalities. just because all law breaking parties were members of a mormon subsect- that does not make the govt's actions persecution. cheers to persuing stiff penalties for people who use their religious beliefs to break child sex laws like this.

it is perfectly ok for social services to to go to your home and ask to inquire to speak to a pregnant 15 year old. thats what i give them my tax money for. so i hope they do it. their needs to be investigations whenever a minor comes up pregnant. when the father is not also a minor then it becomes a problem... otherwise it's just teenage two kids having a baby, and thats bad enough but sometimes these social services people do investigations and find the fathers to be well above the ages of legal sexual consent. thats why they have to investigate a minor girls pregnancy.

sometimes breaking the law for religious purposes may seem ok, like say acquiring peyote when you are not a " native american " yet subscribe to native beliefs, as it hurts only you and that even is questionable...but in this case it's totally wrong to use your religion to shield you from the law.

just because you move onto a compound and put up a fence, that doesnt mean that you don't have to follow federal and state laws. that makes marrying a 14 year old illegal in texas, and if they can prove who the father was and if he was not the 19 year old then mayhaps a molestation charge would even be in order...on the adult father. and on another note...i'm sure that once talking to these women they found plenty of things to build a case around. since bigamy is illegal and marrying a 14 year old is illegal and having a pregnant 15 year old on your premises is rightfully questionable, i find this perfectly fine for the gov't to do...if these young women knew no other life, then they have nothing to measure their choice against or nothing to measure their lack of choice against. and even if a 14 year old agrees to marriage, chances are they arent able to fully comprehend their action.

and these people you called mormons are not members of the recognized church of latter day saints, but a " FUNDAMENTAL " off shoot.... in my experience many religious groups that title themselves as fundamentalists are often over zealous in ways that are not justifiable or protected by freedom of religion laws.

ex...a few fundamental christians feel it's ok to murder abortion doctors, because they believe that abortionists are gov't protected murderers- but that doesnt make it ok just cuz they feel their religious beliefs justify breaking the laws. so having sex with adolescent girls and marrying them is not ok and it doesnt make it ok just cuz you say it's your religion. in my mind it's just as bad as merkin' abortionists.

if it comes to question it is better to go over board to protect women and children then it would be to refrain from prosecuting religious leaders who are using their religion as a shield to break the law out of fear of being accused of govt persecution.

no protection for child sex perverts. no matter what. no excuses.

oh, and DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS!
Post Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:24 pm
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pedavis



Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1425
Location: Illinois, US
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yeah!
Post Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:06 pm
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