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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
Police State  Reply with quote  

scary. taken from www.guardian.co.uk:

US man arrested after wearing peace T-shirt

A man was charged with trespassing in a mall in Albany, USA, after he refused to take off a T-shirt saying "Peace on Earth" and "Give peace a chance".

Mall security staff approached Stephen Downs, 61, and his 31-year-old son, Roger, on Monday night after they were spotted wearing the T-shirts at Crossgates Mall. The two said they refused a request to remove the shirts or leave the mall. The guards returned with a police officer, who repeated the ultimatum and arrested Stephen Downs when he refused.

Stephen Downs has pleaded innocent to the charges. The New York Civil Liberties Union said it would help with his case if asked. Police said they were responding to a complaint by mall security.
Post Wed Mar 05, 2003 12:27 pm
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RealJustice



Joined: 04 Sep 2002
Posts: 1193
Location: Abstract Packistan
I'm free speech-less  Reply with quote  

he is also a lawyer. I can't wait to see the outcome of this.
Post Wed Mar 05, 2003 12:33 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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I go to school in albany, ny

that's some stupid shit....you can't wear a "give peace a chance" t-shirt???

is peace illegal??
Post Wed Mar 05, 2003 12:40 pm
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ihaveagluegun



Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 907
Location: Austin, Tx
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well, he probally wont win, because a mall is private property, it is owned, not public....they can say that you may or may not do things in there, i know...i have been kicked out enough times....they made it clear in their explanation that it was private property....
Post Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:59 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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so? you can just kick out people for the fuck of it?

"Oh I don't like those sneakers you're wearing...get out or you go to jail"

so if they started kicking out black people it would be ok too?

no because that's illegal

and so is senseless censorship....it's not like that person is reflecting the points of view of the mall owners....they didn't pose any harm whatsoever

they can't just kick out people for no reason...and if they do...those people have a legitimate complaint
Post Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:05 pm
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Nortled



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 308
Location: Cranston, RI
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I agree with the above post. IF the mall wins this case, don't just go down without a fight. These 2 should gather everyone who agrees with them and go "abortion clinic" on the mall: demonstrate on the sidewalk just outside their property. It would help if they could make signs pointing out any tax breaks the mall receives from the city, or how the citizens should bomb the mall seeing as how they are so pro-war.
Post Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:12 pm
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ihaveagluegun



Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 907
Location: Austin, Tx
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well, you can kick anyone out of your house if you want....im pretty sure that the mall would win this one. unless they can find some way that it violated his rights, and i cant think of any way that it did..
Post Wed Mar 05, 2003 8:13 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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it's not the same thing. You don't let thousands of people in your house so they can shop, eat and go to the movies

they service people and people pay for those services

it's a completely different scenario

the t-shirt wasn't doing anything harmful...it's not representing anybody's beliefs but the person's who's wearing it....

This isn't the same as in Augusta National...they're limiting your freedom of speech...and the t-shirt is absolutely harmless

if the dude was yelling and banging on windows saying "fuck the war"...that's one thing

but if a paying customer has a PEACE t-shirt....a peace t-shirt dude

are they going to kick people out wearing peace signs around their necks too??
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:03 pm
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Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852
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ihaveagluegun - you're right. I think this is the same sort of situation as the Augusta golf club not allowing women... it's certainly not right, but it's not illegal.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:08 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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I forget what number it is, but what about the amendment that says that you can't discriminate on the basis or race, gender, religious preference, etc

if I open a store and I don't let blacks in, then that's illegal

if I open a store, and say women can't come in, that's illegal

if you're naturaly offering a service that a certain group of people don't need, that's one thing (how many women go to a power tools shop?)

but as long as you're offering a service...you can't discriminate...it's an amendment...it's illegal
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:12 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
 Reply with quote  

if you open a private jewish school...that's not discrimination...you're just offering a service to a certain type of people. Not many christians are going to want to go to a jewish school (though I have seen it happen)

it's different from an all-women's salon...do you want a pedicure? if you do, you can go in there, nobody's going to kick you out

Augusta offers golf services, you can't dicriminate on that...it's not natural selection, it's blatant discrimination, and that's illegal
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:16 pm
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Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852
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I'm pretty sure it's been ruled that they are doing nothing wrong in not allowing women.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:19 pm
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Nope



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
 Reply with quote  

the only reason augusta hasn't already been taken care of is cause it's run by rich white men that offers services mainly to rich white men

and guess who has to make the decision to make them change their acceptance rules?
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:21 pm
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ihaveagluegun



Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 907
Location: Austin, Tx
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look, you proved yourself wrong in your own sentence, the key word is "let" they let them in, ever seen a sign that says "we have the right to refuse service to any persons" ? they have that right. they just exercised it. If the owner of the mall is pro-war and dosent want "anti-war" propoganda in his place of business he dosen't have to. period.
Sometimes I feel like the people who are anti-war are too stingy, they want their rights, but they dont want pro-war people to have theirs...they do have rights.....you know....
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:12 pm
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LITTLE A



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 8
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mhmmm, i so dont miss albany.
Post Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:17 pm
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