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Nature of Reality?????
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PokeHerFace



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 361
Location: behind
subjective reality  Reply with quote  


Quote:

I don't think reality is subjective. It's our theories that are subjective.


Cool. Yes, we are in agreeance. All we have, in reality (no pun intended) is our theories or beliefs. Reality in and of itself is a definate something, but so long as no one knows, and since no one will ever be able to know and prove beyond a doubt, our perceptions of reality are highly subjective.
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:27 pm
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Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852
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It's somewhat ironic that as our knowledge of the universe grows, we're becoming less certain of reality.

Whenever a question is addressed, a hundred more arise, whether or not the original one is even answered.



note: I have way too many posts. I need to take a sabbatical from this messageboard.
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:32 pm
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Hellen Earth
could be a girl. could be a guy.


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1275
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Re: subjective reality  Reply with quote  

PokeHerFace wrote:

Quote:

I don't think reality is subjective. It's our theories that are subjective.


Cool. Yes, we are in agreeance. All we have, in reality (no pun intended) is our theories or beliefs. Reality in and of itself is a definate something, but so long as no one knows, and since no one will ever be able to know and prove beyond a doubt, our perceptions of reality are highly subjective.



I don't think all we have is our theories and beliefs. We have what we've been talking about....cold hard facts....scientific proof. PokeHer....you mentioned early that you believe there is something that is greater than all of our sciences. I would have to disagree.....I think that science is the only thing that is going to really get us anywhere, spiritually speaking.
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:37 pm
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PokeHerFace



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 361
Location: behind
all this uncertainty  Reply with quote  

First, like it was addressed above me, it is crazy how much uncertainty there is in science. Also in general, all these scientific laws and theories are based on a basic set of unknowns that we take for granted. Also, all this scientific advancement has been made, over my head of course, through much calculation and numeric postulating. However, the universe is controlled by something wholly other to humans, what we call science. But if the way we discover new things and find out new phenomenons is based on a computation system that was made by humans don't you think that is a little skeptical too? That is unless you are a mathematician that thinks the world can be described in numbers (ever see the movie PI?) and then you would cut my head off for bringing this speculation up.
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:38 pm
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Hellen Earth
could be a girl. could be a guy.


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1275
Location: Fitchburg, MA
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I think there is something to be said for numbers.
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:40 pm
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PokeHerFace



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 361
Location: behind
cold hard facts?  Reply with quote  


Quote:

I don't think all we have is our theories and beliefs. We have what we've been talking about....cold hard facts....scientific proof. PokeHer....you mentioned early that you believe there is something that is greater than all of our sciences. I would have to disagree.....I think that science is the only thing that is going to really get us anywhere, spiritually speaking


Hellen,

do you not think, spiritually speaking, that there exists a creator good that is outside the realm of science, something that is not subject to the nature of science? I can see if you believe that all sciences leads to once conclusive reality, but is that conclusive reality in the realm of science itself?
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:49 pm
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Couille De Gnou



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 68
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PokeHerface, hug me.


Quote:

I don't think all we have is our theories and beliefs. We have what we've been talking about....cold hard facts....scientific proof.


What you're saying here is terrible IMO...
"Terrible", meaning : we're doomed.
Oh wait, yes we are.
Science is questioned everyday and night; ever since people have been practising it, not so many things are still considered exactly the way they have been when they were discovered. Don't forget some people actually thought the Earth was flat, some people actually thought the Sun was revolving around the Earth, some people actually thought black people were inferior to whites, some people actually thought women are inferior to men. And if you consider the last two, some people still think those, in spite of all those scientific proofs that there is no such thing as inferiority in mankind.
The Creator as far as I conceive it is Nature. It is well beyond the realm of anything that is human, and it has been the object of this science from the very beginning, and nobody has come to an agreement on this subject, though many tried...
Afterlife is fun; if people stop believing in afterlife, I see two logical attitudes:
1. Mass Suicide
2. Spiritual Elevation
There must be a few others, but solution 1 will be the most popular by the time we know it.
As far as your considerations about time are concerned, stop them. First because time doesn't exist. And also because time doesn't exist (Some people proved it like two months ago in Geneva, they will be hard to contradict, Einstein had already said it in his day, without proving it). Time is subjective, for sure, when you're enjoying yourself, time passes quickly, when you're bored, time is slow as a mofo...
Well, shouldn't we be trying to diss Anticon or something?
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:15 pm
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Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852
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I think the universe probably can be described with numbers, but "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance," so I'm extricating myself from this debate.
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:18 pm
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PokeHerFace



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 361
Location: behind
i hear all yall...  Reply with quote  

yeah, i have no work to do at work, so im just blabbing. I've probably contradicted myself too many times to sound credible anymore. i should never have started my tangent on this post. I read what you all say trying to disagree with me, and I'm like, wait i agree with that, and then i look at what i wrote and i'm like, man why did i say that. I will stop now, time does not exist, like i said its relative

Anyway, is anyone here one of those people who think we did not land on the moon? There is a cult following of this denial and im interested in what you think. I think we definately went there, saw some bullshit that wasn't worth the money and then peaced, never to go back again.

Anyway, I'm goin to NYC tonight to see Black Star so who needs reality anyway.
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:22 pm
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11613
Location: MI
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reality=perception= subjective.........
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 4:37 pm
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darkMatters



Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 92
Re: PokeHerFace-  Reply with quote  

Hellen Earth wrote:
I have seen Donnie Darko....it's a great flick. A lot of esoteric philosophies believe in the self as a means to open up other dimensions and travel time. Usually it's through a trance or meditative state. I don't know...I've never experienced it, but I guess it's in the realm of possiblity.


Traditional Shaman's claim to have been traveling through time and space for hundreds of years, although not in a "physical" sense. The travel is acheived by entering an altered state of consciousness, so you could call it mind traveling, although there are several forms. Some of which involve "out of body" type experiences, or flights of the spirit. This is different from Lucid Dreaming (dreams where you can control your actions). There is a lot of interesting reading on this subject, and althought scientifically it can't be "proven" there are many who have witnessed or experienced it themselves. Check out http://www.shamanism.org/ for some interesting articles, the book Way of the Shaman by Michael Harner is basically a beginner instruction book to achieving altered states. Also check out http://www.sharedwisdom.com/ which is the site by Hank Wesselman. He teaches classes at a couple colleges here and I was able to go to one it was definately a most educational and interesting experience.. His books are really good too, fun reads whether you believe him or not. Sorry this is off topic in a way, but there is a LOT of philosophy based on the nature of reality in this subculture, and it's all 'relative' hehe. Hope you find it as interesting as I did.

The "nature" of reality I believe includes much more than what our physical senses can comprehend or scientific methods can discover. I don't think it's in our human nature to ever fully understand it. So much illusion in reality, yet is illusion real? are thoughts and dreams? It's all a part of reality. Not only that, but everyone's reality is different. So reality is ever changing and exists in each of us, in fact we create reality with every action we take or thought we think. You can break them up and seperate them and believe that nothing outside of physical reality is truly "real", but I don't believe this to be so, it's just another plane of existance. Where all reality comes from, how it works, and why it is here, are questions I think people will still be asking hundreds of years from now.

Peace
Post Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:19 pm
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