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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11616
Location: MI
evolution vs creationism  Reply with quote  

i was just reading that IM CONVO sage posted and wondered what you guys thought



me personally i belive that there MIGHT be a 'GOD' but i dont think you need to go to a church or a masq or wherever you might go to worship 'it'
before i can belive something i need to see more proof then whats written in a book before i can belive in something and maybe even 'worship' it


im sure this topic has been done on here before..........
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:08 pm
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Varick_Pyr



Joined: 06 Jul 2002
Posts: 330
Location: Reading, PA
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to me, science is a form of religion. theories, guesses, ideas, few hardcore facts. organized religion (poison) can't scare you into believing in their God and science can't scare you into believing otherwise. i think it's all up to the individual. no one else can see through your own eyes.
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 2:38 pm
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mortalthoughts
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Joined: 12 Dec 2002
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Location: MI
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yea i defintly agree that its up to the individual to choose what ever is right to them but atleast science can be proven with the knowledge to understand what the results are<depending on what the test is>

'blind fait' just doesnt cut it for me
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 3:28 pm
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SoundDoctrine



Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 423
Location: Nomad
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About the "Blind Faith" thing...

That is the only kind of faith...I believe in the creator...I think we put ourselves on this pedastol of knowledge like everything can make sense to us but it can't...Yes find things out for yourself, but EVERYTHING doesn't have an answer that you can understand...Thus comes an element of faith...Which is always blind...It's belief in what can't be seen, visually or from the perspective of emotion or what not...
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 3:41 pm
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apeofdeath
FIRE BREATHING DRAG QUEEN


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2804
Location: Kingston, mang
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religion is based on faith, not proof. How can you prove the existence of God? You cant. That is where faith comes in.

I think I believe in God, but I dont think I need a religion to do so. I also think alot of the restrictions that religion places on the individual are useless. Take Islam for example, the Koran says that a muslim should not eat any pork derivatives because of sanitary reasons. But when the Koran was written pigs may have been a lot more dirty, as were humans. But as we have evolved we have become cleaner, and have learned not to let animals wallow in their own shit. We have fed animals better feed, kept them in better kennels (or whatever.) So is a decree in the Koran, a book divined thousands of years ago, still valid in our current society? Millions will wholeheartedly agree, but I beg to differ.

Dont get me wrong, not all of the scriptures in the Koran are anachronistic or archane, but alot of what was written doesnt specifically hold now (this is in my opinion of course.) Why would it make me less of a muslim because I eat pork? I still believe in the same god, I still believe in the same ethos.
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 3:43 pm
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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Infamous, I definitely see your point and I don't want to ruin it, but.. I don't really think pigs are fed a lot better than before. I don't know what they could have been fed before other than seeds or whatever, but I don't think they had chemicals and stuff back then either. I don't know, I just thought that would be necessary to point out.
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 3:51 pm
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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We all gotta wait till we die to find out whats behind the curtains. Until then listen to your self and try not to make those same mistakes again.[/u]
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:03 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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okay

people who say science is a form of religion. Shut up. They are in no way the same. Science is the anti-thesis of organized religion (which IS blind faith). To just look at a basic level, science moves forward. It is based on reason and logic. So its theories get changed and it moves forward with new evidence and new theories.

Organized religion is the EXACT opposite. its dogmas are carved in stone. The only time religion ever changes its views is in the face of science, because science makes it look stupid. ("oh well I know we preached for centruries that the world is flat but now we want you to know we were just kidding, god meant it as a metaphor or something")


Quote:

. organized religion (poison) can't scare you into believing in their God


I think this is totally wrong. Organized religion is based on scaring people into belief. ESPECIALLY christianity and islam.

Look at it this way. In countries X, which is muslim lets say, virtually everyone who grows up there will be muslim. In country Y, which is virtually all christian, most people will grow up christian. ONly a tiny minority of people switch from one Organized religion to another.

What does this mean? well it means it is not really an individual choice. The Individual does not look at all the evidence and decide what religion, if any is right. If that was the case, religious belief would be evenly spread.

sound doctrine:
Quote:

About the "Blind Faith" thing...
That is the only kind of faith...I believe in the creator...

this makes no sense. What are you trying to say here?
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:12 pm
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duke_city



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
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Location: San Diego,CA
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Organized religion and faith have very little to do with each other.

A good analogy would be between knowledge and formal eduation. Some of the most profound thinkers of all time never attended one day of higher eduation. Likewise some people who never attend one day of church or adhere to a specifc religion understand their spirituality perfectly.

Faith is extremely personal, religion of any form is everything but personal.

Brian
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:17 pm
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Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 852
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I believe in reason over religion because with it we can formulate theories about what will happen given certain conditions. And we can make observations that support our theories. Theories - or even "laws" - may not be completely correct, but they can provide very good models of how things work. For example, I've been attempting to teach myself string theory, because I covet the practical knowledge of the world it will give me. I guess which you choose to follow more closely depends on whether you want to make some attempt to understand the workings of the world or feel cozy saying "God did that!" In the end, it probably doesn't matter which viewpoint you adopt.

Reason and religion are both perfectly valid by their own standards, and not according to those of the other. So to argue about which is "right" is futile, because someone who believes in reason will evaluate reason and spirituality in terms of logic, and someone who believes in religion will evaluate them both in terms of spirituality.

But for what it's worth, some of the world's leading physicists, former agnostics or atheists, say their work has led them to believe there may be some kind of "higher power." Reason and religion aren't necessarily irreconciliable.
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:29 pm
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mortalthoughts
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Joined: 12 Dec 2002
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im having a major brain fart this sucks
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:38 pm
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Varick_Pyr



Joined: 06 Jul 2002
Posts: 330
Location: Reading, PA
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August Spies wrote:

people who say science is a form of religion. Shut up. They are in no way the same. Science is the anti-thesis of organized religion (which IS blind faith).


Granted that's your opinion, I don't see how, pertaining to creationism vs. evolution, that science and religion are that different. Stripped down, neither can be proven. Period.


Quote:

. organized religion (poison) can't scare you into believing in their God


August Spies wrote:
I think this is totally wrong. Organized religion is based on scaring people into belief. ESPECIALLY christianity and islam.


What I meant by that was that people shouldn't let themselves be scared into believing in THEIR version of God. Of course organized religion is based on scare tactics. Hence, poison.[/quote]
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:58 pm
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Rex



Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 30
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Iím going to start this off by saying I believe in God. I also have a degree in Anthropology; this does not mean I know more or less about the subject it just shows that I have studied Darwinism and Evolution. I also believe that both of these scientific theories are correct. I will say this one more time, I do believe in God, Ala, ect. In my view Islam and the religions of the west worship the same God. You canít prove the theory of religion; it is just a feeling, a ďleap of faithĒ. Not very scientific but the way that it is. Now here is the kicker for all of you logical scientific types if there is no God then there is no after life. If there is a God there is an after life. So the only logical decision here is to believe in God. Your only chance of an after life is to believe in God.
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:30 pm
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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
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I rest my case.
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:34 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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dallasboy:


Quote:

Organized religion and faith have very little to do with each other.


no offense but this is just silly semantics as far as I can tell. Clearly a normal definition of faith, believing in something without proff or evidence, is very tied in with religion. especially organized religion. To say otherwise is silly.

Rasputin:

Reason and religion are both perfectly valid by their own standards, and not according to those of the other.

I don't necessarily disagree here, but im not sure how far you can take this. I mean clearly you can apply this to anything. Capitalism and communism, Monarchism and relgion etc... you can say the standards of each thing don't apply to the other.

LD:
I don't see how, pertaining to creationism vs. evolution, that science and religion are that different. Stripped down, neither can be proven.

Again, this is silly. To begin with religion is the belief in supernatural (ie, non-scientific) things. God, gods, etc... Religion and Science operates in TOTALLY DIFFERENT spheres (as rasputin points at).

So you argument is that the two things are that different because neither can be proven. You might as well say nothing is different from anythign cause nothing can be totally proven. Fascism, christianity, the existence of your mother, cable modems etc... none of those can be 100% proven to exist.

However, it is clear that science relies on evidence and reason (even if it can not reach 100% proff) while religion does not. If this is not enough to distinguish them, I do not know what to say.

Of course organized religion is based on scare tactics. Hence, poison.[/

ah okay, my bad.
Post Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:40 pm
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