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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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August Spies

Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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1. Merely because america claims to be democratic means little here. Rmember Nazi germany ALSO claimed to be democratic. Reagardless, all succesful movements in the United States have involved breaking laws. ALL of them.

also I am NOT a member of the animal rights movement. I just think your arguments are silly.

2. yes it still IS your opinion. Look bud, I have no interest in playing semantics games with you. If you want to make a valid argument, leave semantics out of it.

3. I have read Marx and Locke many times. Have you? what Marx have you read?

4. The current constitution was created by a small select group of individuals who decided they were the people in charge. They were not elected by some total vote of the country.

The group in fact was supposed to be revising the articles of confederation. They had no authority to create a new constitution. But they did anyone, and they used some very anti-democratic tactics to get the members to agree to it.

so don't pretend it was "the citizens of this country" who decide on our property laws, Far from it kid.

5. "the citizens spoke and the laws were changed. "
The abolition of slaveyr involved much violence and many broken laws, even full scale war.

You have still not shown me ONE SINGLE example of a big succesful movment which did not break laws.

6. but if you study the history of movements like Civil Rights you will notice not much changed until the groups started doing and threatening direct action.

7. ?

8. we do not live in a democracy. Even by name it is a republic. So violent revolution is acceptable in certain cases? what is the criteria?

9. I emplore you to stop living in a dream. The reality of this country is far different than what it claims to be. (this should hardly be shocking, no country is really what it claims to be)
Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 12:58 pm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 9309
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You are destroying the jobs of people who are already poor, causing miniscule loss for the company, bringing negative attention to your self, possibly imprisoning members of your group who will have to work behind bars, and only giving McDonalds an excuse to build a huge new McDonalds where the old one once stood. If you dont like McDonalds, THEN DONT EAT IT.

it just does more harm than good. want to hurt fast food restaurants? dont eat there at all. nothin kills a business better than no business at all.

- jehu
Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:04 pm
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natas sevol dog

Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 345
Location: dallas area
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well if not eating their hurts them, then dont you think if the place is destroyed and no one eating there will work even better?
Post Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:09 pm
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 788
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1) i am not going to make an argument against the democracy of nazi germany and the democracy of the US - it gets away from my point! weather you consider, the us, a real democracy is irrelevant. all citizens of this country are held accoutable for the actions of this country. why? because they DO!!!!!!! elect the officails who carry out those actions; therefore when a law is passed, it is the citizens who are represented by thier elected officials who are passing the law. if you can make an argument that says the citizens of this country are not accountable for the actions of thier elected officials than do so! also, in this vain, the animal welfare act and the endargered speicieas act were drafted and passed without the use of violence or lawlessness.. my question to you is show me on example , in the past 100 or so years, where a direct action had a DIRECT POSITIVE effect (i.e passed law or some other significant change) on a movement in america, where there was no reasonable alternative to that action.

2) fine, but the alf website does state that their intent is to perform economic damage through destruction of property - that is not considered violent behavior! fairyland?

3) i don't know what you mean, but if you are insinuating that i have not read him, then i will elaborate. one of the greatest contributions marx gave to society, was his characterizations of economic epochs throughout history. in no other epoch did he go into more detail than capitailism. the fundememntal difference beteween capitalism and it's predecessor (feudalism) is that the distribution of property, is no longer dependent on birthright, but a system where one can purchase property buy using his/her body as capital; hence the phrase "whore in the modes of production". this is what i meant, i am sorry if you did not understand, but i could not put it any plainer. by using your body as capital, you can attain property that would not be allowed to you in the fuedal system. therefore; any person with the means to purchase property can do so.

for the rest of your points refer to the above statements! also once again i emplore you to wake up! if you are a memeber of this country then you are responsible for it's actions - if you feel alienated from the government, get more involved! if you feel that this country was founded and is operating under false pretenses? than do something about it! but until you can effect some real change, you will be bound by the laws and ideals of dreamers.
Post Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:12 pm
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