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Geometrik



Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: Massaworcesterbridge
Commentary on "Emotional" Hip hop  Reply with quote  

It is obvious that the world is being pushed into a period change and new development, revamping the way we think and how we act(actually we are the ones doing this, but there are external factors that help the process as well.) Hip hop is no exception to this change. In the present moment, we are looking at a time where emotional clearing is encouraged, and this is most apparent in our artform(especially in hip hop, not only because it is still in an infantile state, being so young, but also because of the mind set(s) that hip hop has evolved from).
Our artform is evolving. Although one's observations might suggest that music is the cause of this present change, that is not completely true. Music is the reflection of these changes, and at the same time, a contributor to them. In some ways, people are being forced to open their eyes to perceive different perceptions. They are being gently moved to step out of their narrow minded paradigms, and more into what is real(and even that changes from moment to moment.) Much underground hip hop is becoming a catalyst for this awakening.
Underground hip hop brings about unity in both direct and indirect ways. Those who wish to label our art form and sub-catagorize it are just attempting to judge weather or not this new interpretative art is marketable. In mainstream/pop culture, the mind frame is if a product is not marketable, why waste time promoting it? If the music or performer does not wield some aspect that can be exploited, the producers immediately turn their noses toward the sky.
Many in the music industry are blind to the positive effects a performer/writer can actually have on the masses(even though on the flip side of that coin, many promoters and producers know exactly what messages their artists are putting out there, and they use that "dramatic gimmick" to their advantage(i.e. the Eminem)).
It is also these same influential beings who scoff at new styles which deviate from the old way of thinking, and in a world where the concepts of might is right and penis contests have prevailed for so many years(thousands), it isn't too hard to understand why some react so defensively to change. Especially when emotion is involved.
The point is that people tend to be fearful of change. Most of the time they greet it with resistance. Emotional hip hop is not new, as the desire to express one's self is the life force that breathed inspiration into the art to begin with.
Post Tue Nov 19, 2002 10:46 pm
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Neuro
A champion of Kurtis SP


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7799
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ok mr. rogers time for bed, stop playing with the muppets
Post Tue Nov 19, 2002 10:52 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Someone's been watching too much oprah.
Post Tue Nov 19, 2002 10:55 pm
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shapeshifter



Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 60
Location: Massachusetts
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Hmm..
I like what he has to say..
You guys gotta admit, if that was posted by Sage, ya'll would be getting your chapstick ready so you could get ready to ass kiss..hehe
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:26 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Sage wouldn't post that.
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:40 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
Re: Commentary on "Emotional" Hip hop  Reply with quote  

Geometrik wrote:
It is obvious that the world is being pushed into a period change and new development, revamping the way we think and how we act(actually we are the ones doing this, but there are external factors that help the process as well.) Hip hop is no exception to this change. In the present moment, we are looking at a time where emotional clearing is encouraged, and this is most apparent in our artform(especially in hip hop, not only because it is still in an infantile state, being so young, but also because of the mind set(s) that hip hop has evolved from).
Our artform is evolving. Although one's observations might suggest that music is the cause of this present change, that is not completely true. Music is the reflection of these changes, and at the same time, a contributor to them. In some ways, people are being forced to open their eyes to perceive different perceptions. They are being gently moved to step out of their narrow minded paradigms, and more into what is real(and even that changes from moment to moment.) Much underground hip hop is becoming a catalyst for this awakening.
Underground hip hop brings about unity in both direct and indirect ways. Those who wish to label our art form and sub-catagorize it are just attempting to judge weather or not this new interpretative art is marketable. In mainstream/pop culture, the mind frame is if a product is not marketable, why waste time promoting it? If the music or performer does not wield some aspect that can be exploited, the producers immediately turn their noses toward the sky.
Many in the music industry are blind to the positive effects a performer/writer can actually have on the masses(even though on the flip side of that coin, many promoters and producers know exactly what messages their artists are putting out there, and they use that "dramatic gimmick" to their advantage(i.e. the Eminem)).
It is also these same influential beings who scoff at new styles which deviate from the old way of thinking, and in a world where the concepts of might is right and penis contests have prevailed for so many years(thousands), it isn't too hard to understand why some react so defensively to change. Especially when emotion is involved.
The point is that people tend to be fearful of change. Most of the time they greet it with resistance. Emotional hip hop is not new, as the desire to express one's self is the life force that breathed inspiration into the art to begin with.


This is 100% true, because when rap first started being recorded, record companies lined up around the block to jump on the immediately and immensely profitable bandwagon. In fact, by 1980, rap had achieved worldwide penetration, and rap didn't have to be remotely political or emotional to do it. By the way, I am being completely sarcastic.

The quoted text above is basely racist. It implies that, until today's fabulous "underground," rap's content was facetious and facile. This is erroneous. And it could just as easily be said that much independent rap is too whiny today.
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:28 am
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shapeshifter



Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 60
Location: Massachusetts
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<<The quoted text above is basely racist. It implies that, until today's fabulous "underground," rap's content was facetious and facile. This is erroneous. And it could just as easily be said that much independent rap is too whiny today.>>

What I got from it is that a lot of mainstream rap/hip hop is often not very emotional, but a lot of the underground is and this impacts people. I know what you are trying to say, but I really don't think that's what the person was implying. That's just my perspective though, people are gonna take things differently.
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:50 am
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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Visionary11 wrote:
What I got from it is that a lot of mainstream rap/hip hop is often not very emotional, but a lot of the underground is and this impacts people. I know what you are trying to say, but I really don't think that's what the person was implying. That's just my perspective though, people are gonna take things differently.


Ghostface is not emotional? His whole flow is the "I'm calling out!" style. Ja Rule isn't emotional? Basically, dood downplays these artists based on their material and coverage, but what it amounts to is uncalculated racism. To be more poignant, the implication is that whining about social displacement and world ills is emotional, while rapping about beef on the streets and the dichotomy of drug-dealing is not. To me, this is erroneous. The idea that Sage would ever post something like this is laughable.
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:01 am
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shapeshifter



Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 60
Location: Massachusetts
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<<<To be more poignant, the implication is that whining about social displacement and world ills is emotional, while rapping about beef on the streets and the dichotomy of drug-dealing is not. To me, this is erroneous. The idea that Sage would ever post something like this is laughable.>>

I understand what you are saying, and you know it's really not up to us to label what is 'emotional' and what isn't b/c that really depends on the artist. I never thought about it like that. I still do not think that the person's intent is what you are thinking, but that is up to him to disclose.

And the reason I made the Sage comment, is because I was sick of seeing lame ass answers rather than real responses. I wasn't talking about the content as I was context, it was a serious post, and you get goofball answers. That's just me tho. You actually really responded, that's the whole point of a debate/discussion, not talking over each other's heads with goofy comments.

Anyway I respect your opinion, and you have given me somethin new to think about.
Peace
Michelle
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:10 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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I definitely hear what Reggie is saying.
Is it racism? Maybe. I'd say there's an aspect of it.
That somehow suburban Slug-emotion is somehow more "legitimate" than emotion from the street.

You want emotion? Ghostface's verse on "Impossible" off of Wu Tang Forever. That song is fucking EMOTIONAL.


Also, biggie's always been "emotional" in my opinion....Juicy is the most bittersweet song...never mind "things done changed":

"Shit, My momma got cancer in her breast, don't ask me why I'm muthafucking stressed. Things done changed."
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 9:28 am
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snatch



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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another michele from mass!
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 9:54 am
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shapeshifter



Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 60
Location: Massachusetts
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<<another michele from mass!>>

No kidding, where in Mass. are you from?
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 10:05 am
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Geometrik



Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: Massaworcesterbridge
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The essay is not racist, and in no way was my intention for you to even percieve it as such. It was actually inspired by some eminem hatin ive been reading on this site lately, and so i chose to focus on what todays underground artists are saying. This includes cannibis, mr lif, sage, slug and any other purple green black white simpson-yellow skinned being grabbing a mic. So get off the semantics, stop judgin hip hop. stop labeling. Quit providing the hot air to these already inflated concepts. I am almost perplexed that some of you would consider what i wrote racist. The only reason i am not completely confused is because we all percieve reality differently. You obviously have put something in my words that is not there. You missed the point of the essay. And what does it matter if Sage posts it or not? The point is that the commentary was designed to make you THINK. Just look at the whole picture for a moment. Stand back. Of course hip hop is emotional. It always has been- "Emotional hip hop is not new, as the desire to express one's self is the life force that breathed inspiration into the art to begin with." And saying that independent hip hop is too whiney is quite the empty statement. I am focusing on the way that mainstream hip hop is developed and organized, and the main goal of the companies who exploit the artists are to make money. plain and simple. And now a days, some of the artists have fallen to the thought that making money as a primary goal is a good idea, and IT SHOWS IN THEIR MUSIC.
"dood downplays these artists based on their material and coverage, but what it amounts to is uncalculated racism. To be more poignant, the implication is that whining about social displacement and world ills is emotional, while rapping about beef on the streets and the dichotomy of drug-dealing is not."
You are separating people who sell drugs as being mainly black, while the ones who whine about social displacement are white. Those are your words.
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:10 pm
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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Geometrik wrote:
The essay is not racist, and in no way was my intention for you to even percieve it as such. It was actually inspired by some eminem hatin ive been reading on this site lately, and so i chose to focus on what todays underground artists are saying. This includes cannibis, mr lif, sage, slug and any other purple green black white simpson-yellow skinned being grabbing a mic. So get off the semantics, stop judgin hip hop. stop labeling. Quit providing the hot air to these already inflated concepts. I am almost perplexed that some of you would consider what i wrote racist. The only reason i am not completely confused is because we all percieve reality differently. You obviously have put something in my words that is not there. You missed the point of the essay. And what does it matter if Sage posts it or not? The point is that the commentary was designed to make you THINK. Just look at the whole picture for a moment. Stand back. Of course hip hop is emotional. It always has been- "Emotional hip hop is not new, as the desire to express one's self is the life force that breathed inspiration into the art to begin with." And saying that independent hip hop is too whiney is quite the empty statement. I am focusing on the way that mainstream hip hop is developed and organized, and the main goal of the companies who exploit the artists are to make money. plain and simple. And now a days, some of the artists have fallen to the thought that making money as a primary goal is a good idea, and IT SHOWS IN THEIR MUSIC.
"dood downplays these artists based on their material and coverage, but what it amounts to is uncalculated racism. To be more poignant, the implication is that whining about social displacement and world ills is emotional, while rapping about beef on the streets and the dichotomy of drug-dealing is not."
You are separating people who sell drugs as being mainly black, while the ones who whine about social displacement are white. Those are your words.


Your post hurts my eyes.

I am not saying you are racist, but that your insinuation was. You can use all the technicalities you want, but the clear distinction was the "emotional" tone of the underground vs. the conversely unemotional tone of the mainstream. That you choose Eminem as someone particularly unemotional is insane to me, he bitches and moans more than any indie MC. Regardless, it was the insinuation that I called racist, and I stand by that. Technicalities and/or textbook definitions will not change this.
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:42 pm
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Geometrik



Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: Massaworcesterbridge
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Tell me- in what ways is it racist?
Post Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:53 pm
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