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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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No, thats not good, but it'll get worse.


I love hearing people bitch about Eminem.

You know how much worse things could be?

I'm so fucking glad Eminem and Jay-Z are on the radio....People bitch about it, but as a longtime jazz fan, I can tell you right now, things will get worse.

We'll dream of the days when Eminem was on the radio.

Vanilla Ice will return...just in someone else's body.
Post Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:01 pm
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Machiavel



Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 766
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you forgot nelly, but who cares what happens to mainstream hip hop? most people will buy whatever they are told to. if you dont like mainstream hip hop dont listen to it. I dont. i still dont see how this is relavent to the fact that kids are not being tought anything and no one cares about it. At least this guy is pro education even if he is ultra conservative
Post Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:25 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Do you really think there are "anti education" people out there?


The problem is a solution, not just recognizing the problem.
Post Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:27 pm
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darianluv



Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350
My problem is  Reply with quote  

I hate useless arguments and i hate stating the obvious.

You are exactly the type this article is talking about. You try to make it sound as though you are an expert on the subject when in fact you base your opinions on specualtion and don't know nearly enough on what you are talking about.

People need to recognize their own ignorance, because everyone has it. This is tough because people like to think they know more than what they do.

As far as a Us Vs. them being a good attitude... I suggest you read about Malcolm X. Thats one thing about highschool, I think there was like one paragraph about him in my highschool career, and the teacher fed misinformtaion about him.

You can interpret many things in lots of different ways, and the way you view things would naturally seem like "the truth." Arguing with you has been the equivalent of banging my head against the wall, and you seemed to enjoy it all to much. It was a boring waste of my time, you were way too predictable, You are transparent to me... but i won't even touch that.
Post Fri Nov 01, 2002 7:47 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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You like to not go into specfics? Or are you just full of shit?


Seriously.

Every one of your posts has been bashing me for the crime of "arguing when I am ignorant."

But you have yet to say ANYTHING other than "you just are". You haven't paid attention to what I'm arguing. And you haven't YET informed me what I'm "ignorant" about.
I said the guy was a conservative, based on the three editorials I posted in another thread.
And before you talk out your ass, realize I've read the autobiography of malcolm x cover to cover several times.

I don't quite understand what you're trying to prove, argue, or anything. You have yet to clarify what the hell you are saying. And you're basically spouting bullshit.

Learn how to fucking state a clear idea.
Post Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:02 pm
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DM



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: www.NERDTORIOUS.com
......  Reply with quote  

...awesome read. THIS is why I like this message board.

abacus
Post Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:16 pm
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darianluv



Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350
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Thanks abacus7, I'll do this for you.

I did get into specifics, but i edited them because... blah... and you know it.

I'm sorry djdee can't comprehend what i'm saying, i'm not sure if its fair to completely blame me though. I'll try to use little words anyways. Is it offensive if i call you a "mental midget," or would the correct term be "a mental little person?"

You said "he wrote a book where he lampoons black culture." He merely took a collection of quotes, and it was not the culture, its was a way of thinking. And again, you did not read the book.

I fail to see your logic that Goldblatt is "A blithereing Idiot." You've gone out of your way to make him appear to be conservative. Even if he is conservative (and i'd disagree) that does not necesarrily make him an idiot.

Yes in this article he focuses on the ignorance of kids leaving highschool, but its more of an attack on the school system.

sorry, i couldn't tell you knew anything about malcolm x because you implied that there was nothing wrong with an "Us Vs. Them" view.

Concerning the other thread... I thought he took a real factual approach at anylizing feelings of seperatism and elitism of some african brothers (say maybe 5%.)

Another college professor (African/Am) noted this.

"I was enthusiastic about my first appointment: an African American professor teaching in one of the country's prestigious University. Professor E Smith however, gave me a reality check that highlighted an all too familiar alarming data: 65% of African American kids in Washington's public schools not reaching 10 grade. He also lamented about what he saw as the 'victim hood culture' that shackles African American progress. 'Any African American that dares to challenge the Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton Black victim mentally is held up as some kind of a traitor'.

His views of his own University students-predominantly white were also disparaging. 'These middle class kids live in a cotton wool vacuum. Sept 11th shook their reality to the core. If anything good is to come this I hope that they begin to realise that they live a wider world that differs from the own existence'."


Goldblatt also commented that some rappers push these ideas. If you can't see that then you are blind.

I like what this kid says.

"I read about numerous different high profile leaders - both Black and White - talking about the importance of Black youth culture in British Society, but they talk about us only in terms of our music and style.

Now don't get me wrong, I admire much about our style - after all, love them or hate them, who hasn't heard of Ali G and Richard Black wood. Black is officially the new Black.

But to just define us in terms of our music and style emasculates us and leaves us frustrated. The social concept of Black youth culture seems to have become a vicious circle that ends up with us being lefty isolated and ill equipped to deal with the realities of being Black in Britain today.

It's constantly referred to in the media, with us either being sporting, entertainment or academic geniuses or straight from the ghetto. The reflections we see of ourselves, consistently force us towards taking more extreme positions of violence or disinterest in the mainstream - turning on one of our own for no better reason than a spilt drink, - or the pursuit of status - a kind of attempt to lift and distance ourselves from the sub-class Black people and Black youth seem to find themselves in and in the process distancing ourselves from our peers and communities.

Society seems unable to allow us to occupy the middle ground in which most of us dwell and to reflect our social norms. This leaves me feeling angry, frustrated and powerless with few outlets to express this - and I'm sure I can't be the only one. It seems you're either hip hop queen or oxford genius with nothing inbetween.

My generation are the decision makers of tomorrow. We are the ones that will be formulating and passing the immigration, welfare and employment legislation, we are the potential multi-million corporate executives of tomorrow. Yet our media image fails to reflect this.

Seperatism in any way shape or form is limited and never a complete answer. And raising the standards of human rights and equality for one group, usually brings benefit to the majority also. So I believe that focussing together on the empowerment of Black youth, through practical leadership skills and supporting tomorrows decision makers in positions of influence is key, as is being strategic."

In the book "Africa Speaks" goldblatt just collected things he heard black people talking about, it was controvercial, and thats good becuase you need to recognized that there IS a problem. I like his definition of racisim

"What is racism in reality?

It's the false belief that the intellectual, moral, or spiritual potentials of individual human beings are limited by the geographic origins of their distant ancestors; it is also any action predicated on that belief."

He said something negative about rap so you immediately dismissed him as a conservative idiot.

I may not agree to everything he says, but i wouldn't go as far as to call him an idiot.


Last edited by darianluv on Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:15 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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sorry, i couldn't tell you knew anything about malcolm x because you implied that there was nothing wrong with an "Us Vs. Them" view.


I think this whole point destroys your credibility as it is....To imply that there IS something wrong with an Us vs. them mentality....Malcolm X advocated violence. That was where he erred morally. But to suggest that that means you can't confront "them" is ridiculous.

i'm really tired right now and not up to responded to your pages of information...but let me say I think you are completely misreading this guy. Incidently, all these articles came from a conservative web news paper.

Just thought you should know.
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:40 am
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darianluv



Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350
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If you knew anything about Malcolm X you would know that he later changed his beliefs.

"But to suggest that that means you can't confront "them" is ridiculous" -youre reading into that way to much.

and i took quotes from a non-conservative website that backs up goldblatt.


Last edited by darianluv on Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:45 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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I am aware of that, ass.
I told you I've read his autobiography.
I was talking about his beliefs when he was an important member of the nation of islam.

Goddammit, you are annoying to argue with.
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:49 am
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darianluv



Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350
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Wanna shake hands and be friends? hehe
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:52 am
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apeofdeath
FIRE BREATHING DRAG QUEEN


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2804
Location: Kingston, mang
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I think many people, not only Americans will wake up one day and realize that the world has passed them by.

You would be surprised how many ignorant kids there are in good universities as well. It is amazing when you see kids who are pursuing degrees in Applied Mathematics, Computer Engineering, Electrical Engineering, and Software Engineering, who have absolutely no clue as to what is going on around them.

They have the "oh, that doesnt affect me so I don't give two shits" attitude, that is what is most troubling.
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:53 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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why is it more important to know the supreme court case that legalized abortion than to have an opinion on it?
I think it's a case of functionality. Kids--hell anyone--don't need to know most of the shit that guy was complaining about. Life is about eating, fucking, and dying. I don't see the importance of trivial knowledge, when it's more important to find ways to happiness.
I mean it's very cool to know those things, but it doesn't pay the bills or put food on the table--so why would most kids bother?
I think the guys gripe comes from a misunderstanding of what it is to live.
I would bet, that todays kids are no dumber than kids in any generation.
okay, so maybe grandpa was forced to memorize all of his presidents...but grandpa still has to have his 12 year old set up and run his computer.

and the interent is making it of less and less importance to know and retain trivial facts--why memorize them, so long as you know how to look them up when it's functional?

kids are the same now, as they have always been and always will be.
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:08 pm
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darianluv



Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 350
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I think the main problem is that parents don't get as involved in raising their children, they are content to let television do it for them, its sad really.

futuristxen, do you seriously believe that? or are you just trying to provoke me? And I'm not talking about your statement about abortion.

I was watching comedy central and this comedian guy was talking about this book with letters that soldiers in the civil war sent home. He said that these were really poetic and written well, i can't think of the examples he made. But then he started talking about how letters soldiers in the gulf war wrote must've looked. It was hysterical.

You make a valid point though, people and society usually try to take the path of least resistance.

Bur learning and writing and making music brings me happiness, and so does fighting for lost causes.


Last edited by darianluv on Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:29 pm
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19356
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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darianluv wrote:

futuristxen, do you seriously believe that? or are you just trying to provoke me?



I didn't read enough of this thread to see what you said. So no, I wasn't trying to provoke. No hard feelings.

I just think kids today have as much "knowledge" as kids in any other time, it's just about diffrent things. There is sooo much information available to kids these days...just look at all those conspiracy theories those kids were aware of. I just feel like 1. that adults are kidding only fooling themselves by taking this my generation was smarter than your generation approach and 2. that trivial knowledge has no real purpose, especially if it's just about reciting the facts for game show money.

If you only know 5 things, but you know them inside and out, enough so that your life is bettered by knowing them, then you are better off than someone who vaguely knows a million trivial things but only knows them on the surface.

Don't take offense though, it's nothing personal at you.
Post Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:38 pm
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