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Where does Ayn Rand fit in hip hop?
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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"No one would have bought shares in Enron if they'd known what was really happening. "

ahh the great capitalist flaw. The free market economy, even assuming its principles were correct, would only work if people had absolute knowledge of the market place. If every consumer knew the stregnths and weaknesses of all the products. Of course this is not how it works, and is why corporations focus on tricking you psychologically.

"That it refers to are the natural individual/corporate reactions that cause markets to move towards equilibrium in almost any circumstance, "

if only history backed this up. Free markets don't lead towards "equilibrium" they lead towards centralization of wealth and power and chaos. Just take a look at america when it was a relativily free market, hell they had to make psuedo-socialist reforms just to save capitalism from itself.

1 cent.
Post Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:53 pm
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BiPolar Barer



Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 175
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
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don't you find it aggravating as hell that some people want to be tricked. Theres an ass for every seat.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:26 am
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BiPolar Barer



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Do you believe the constitution is an absolute document and the government shouldn't get into the habit of amending it?
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:29 am
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JOEYBEATS
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I don't like Ayn Rand's base philosophy. Selfishness is not the answer. At first, it seems like the best and most effective thing but in the long run.....that's certainly not the case.

Let me tell you all something. "I think therefore I am" is probably the most reductively used quote of all time.

I have a better one for everyone: "I am because of others".

Fuck Ayn Rand.


Joe.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:43 am
 
Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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I don't completely agree with the principle of the invisible hand, but I see some merit in it. I do concur that some intervention is necessary, though. In my opinion, there should be a careful balance between market sovereignty and government control.

Joey - right on. I don't think that should take away from what Descartes said (even though I have trouble finding any value in his reasoning process after that statement), but it's a nice annendum to it.

I'm going to read more Ayn Rand once I have some time... I hated Anthem, but maybe her non-fiction will be more interesting.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 9:55 am
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sequence



Joined: 21 Jul 2002
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I don't really think the statement of identity Joey made is really an addendum to the Cogito, assuming I remember what he's been known to be concerned with with regards to philosophy in the past.

It's straight out of Hegel, recognition from the other is necessary in order for us to truly realize consciousness of self. I won't go into the Lord/Bondsman dialectic at present, but it's worth investigating if you're interested in philosophy.

Regardless, I'll state again that Ayn Rand is a worthless 'philosopher'. First of all her only decent ideas are straight up highway robbery of Nietzsche (and she probably only read Beyond Good and Evil), and while her politics may be justified because of her life story, her coloring of the intentional outcome of socialist/communist thinkers as always being about maintenance of mediocrity is definitely off track. I can rant about Rand all day, she sucked, plus all the Objectivist philosophers I've ever met where complete losers who knew nothing about philosophy.

She is in line with Jack Kerouac and lots of other writers who people say, "I read ________ , and it changed my life, I love philosophy." I'm sorry, as a philosophy graduate student I'm rather bitter about this.

Adam
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 10:38 am
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yeah I sent out for some objectivism literature and they sent me this list of books which included one that was all about anti philosophy. It was asserting that all philosophy is fruitless and everyone should always produce more than they consume. God, my dad tells me that every chance he gets. "Thad, your life is a waste if you consume more than you produce". Hey fuck you dad I don't measure my life in terms of material wealth. he is a true narcissist, he lacks total empathy for any other points of view. i try to embrace perspectivism. In fact I am also reading Nietche (i didn't even try to spell that right) "On Geneleogy of Morality". I was in jail and read "Reveries of a Solitary Walker". Rousseau was a cry baby.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:45 am
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Perhaps my favorite "philosophy" book although it really isn't a true philosophy book is Marcus Aerilius' "Meditations". There is some good shit. I like Stoicism, but not to the degree Zeno and his followers were into it.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:48 am
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Mikal kHill



Joined: 29 Jun 2002
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Ann Rand is a fucking terrible writer, and there is a reason that bitch died bitter and alone: her philosophy doesn't fucking work. And even if it did, how could anyone tolerate her terrible, TERRIBLE fucking writing?
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:53 am
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Petrouchka Rasputin



Joined: 30 Jun 2002
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Sequence - Are you saying Joey is disagreeing with Descartes? I see the two statements as speaking on completely different matters. Descarte's statement was a proof of his own existence (I know I don't even have to say that), and what I get out of Joey's is "you have life because of your parents, and that life is what it is because of everyone who's influenced you." So I see it as an annendum because if you put the two together, it runs something like "I exist... and I exist in the condition that I do because of others."

I have no idea if you meant it that way, Joey, but that's how I interpreted it.

I don't buy that Hegel ish, sorry.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:27 pm
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BiPolar Barer



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Im with Rasputin.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:30 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
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Ayn Rand is an idiot....the fact is that in practice it reduces us to cold callous behavior towards each other.

The free market economy of our country leaves how many people without health care?
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 4:53 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
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So it seems like the consensus: Ayn Rand was a bad writer and a horrible philosopher. dead on id say.

There are some smart libertarian thinkers (though I disagree with their logic), no need to bother with Rand.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 5:26 pm
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JOEYBEATS
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For the record,

I love Descartes for the most part.

Lack of knowledge is the source of all evil.


Joe.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 6:03 pm
 
Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
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JOEYBEATS wrote:
For the record,

I love Descartes for the most part.

Lack of knowledge is the source of all evil.


Joe.




And the source of republican voters.
Post Sat Oct 19, 2002 7:52 pm
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