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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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JTP



Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 609
Re: Abraham Lincoln  Reply with quote  

Jesus Frank wrote:
"Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves in a way that kept them locked up"

Not being very up on american presidents I would just like an explanation of this. Anyone?


The topic being discussed here is if and how Lincoln's Emancipation kept the slaves in bondage until the passing of the 13th Amendment.
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:52 pm
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488
Re: Abraham Lincoln  Reply with quote  

thought pauper wrote:

The topic being discussed here is if and how Lincoln's Emancipation kept the slaves in bondage until the passing of the 13th Amendment.



Apparently pauper didn't know that the Emancipation Proclamation was given 2 years before the Civil War ended. What it all comes down to is this: The Emancipation Proclamation made it the main goal of the Civil War to free the slaves, instead of simply reuniting the Union, and it guaranteed an end to slavery from then on. Thruoughout the war, and once it was over, the Union had made sure that the Emancipation Proclamation was implemented, and then Congress made it formal with the 13th Amendment, which was only drafted because Lincoln had made the Emancipation Proclamation. When the war ended, the slaves were already free thanks to Lincoln's proclamation, so the 13th Amendment had zero effect except to make sure that slavery would never again be permitted in the US in the future.
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:26 pm
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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Good stuff, guys. Thank you.
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:21 am
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JTP



Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 609
Re: Abraham Lincoln  Reply with quote  

I guess I just don't care much for cookie-cutter minded people.

prolifik wrote:

Apparently pauper didn't know that the Emancipation Proclamation was given 2 years before the Civil War ended. What it all comes down to is this: The Emancipation Proclamation made it the main goal of the Civil War to free the slaves, instead of simply reuniting the Union, and it guaranteed an end to slavery from then on. Thruoughout the war, and once it was over, the Union had made sure that the Emancipation Proclamation was implemented, and then Congress made it formal with the 13th Amendment, which was only drafted because Lincoln had made the Emancipation Proclamation. When the war ended, the slaves were already free thanks to Lincoln's proclamation, so the 13th Amendment had zero effect except to make sure that slavery would never again be permitted in the US in the future.


And with these words millions roll over in their graves...
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 9:41 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Haha, jesus, you've got all the dead slaves angry at him now? That's a rough cross to bear, man.
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 9:48 am
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JTP



Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 609
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djdee2005 wrote:
Haha, jesus, you've got all the dead slaves angry at him now? That's a rough cross to bear, man.


Not just the slaves. Anyways, people should be more careful and analytical in their thought. I'm not trying to make the guy look evil really. With reasonable assumption there are a lot of people that wouldn't want history remembered that way.

edit: not "people"...I should have said "this guy"...and then change "their" to "his" while we're at it.
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 9:57 am
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
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I'm sorry if you don't wan't to know our actual history, and you are hell bent on some revisionist idea that Lincoln didn't free the slaves... but the fact is that you are dead wrong. Hit the books. Son.
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 12:57 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Yeah, if my two cents have any weight any more (apparently calling someone a "backpacker" invalidates my opinion) I would agree with Prolifik on this one. Just look at the fact that MOST presidents wouldn't have done what lincoln did....
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 1:13 pm
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The Dead Poet



Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 724
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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Lincoln's Proclimation did not free slaves...the amendment did...

anyways i think what sage ment was he freed them to a country that is Inslaved to the Evils that are out there...

at least thats what i took from the line...

kind of like the Saul Williams line...

"my people let Pharoh(sp?) go"
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 1:15 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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Without Lincoln's proclamation, the amendment wouldn't have been passed.

However, if you consider the pitiful treatment economically, socially, physically, etc. that many former slaves and their children recieved after being freed, one might consider them still slaves today, at least in an abstract sense.
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 1:34 pm
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488
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It's a very simple concept, why is so hard to comprehend? The North fought the Civil War to keep the Union intact, and *not* to free the slaves. Lincoln on the other hand, after witnessing the will of the black people to rise up and fight their way out of slavery, realized that this war *must* be about slavery, and that slavery must come to an end. When Lincoln's proclamation was given, the war was still being fought, so yes, slaves that were still in the South were still in bondage, but every slave who was taken by the Union was freed due to the Emancipation Proclamation. That proclamation had changed the goal of the war, and without it the 13th Amendment would never have been drafted, and slavery would have remained for another century. When the war ended (before the drafting of the 13th Amendment), the South was forced to let all of their slaves go free, due to the Emancipation Proclamation. All the slaves were free, due to the Emancipation Proclamation, before the 13th Amendment was drafted. Now, this is very important: When the 13th Amendment was passed, the slaves were already freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. I'll say that again. The slaves were already freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. Therefore, the 13th Amendment did *absolutely nothing*, except to make certain that slavery would never again be permitted in the USA.
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 1:55 pm
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JTP



Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 609
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In my opinion, you're wrong. In your opinion, I'm wrong.

The End.
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:40 pm
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 488
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That'll work.
Post Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:51 pm
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