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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 2314
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Abraham Lincoln  Reply with quote  

"Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves in a way that kept them locked up"

Not being very up on american presidents I would just like an explanation of this. Anyone?
Post Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:42 pm
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 7872
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They were locked into the plantation system...they were essentially working to live on their masters land, and were making slave wages.

I wouldn't really blame Lincoln...its not like he could have really done much more than he did.
Post Sat Oct 12, 2002 11:45 pm
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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
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Oh.. I did know that, now that I think about it. Well, at least my curiosity on it is cured now. Thanks.
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:01 am
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
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Uh, Lincoln was assassinated right after the war ended. Reconstruction most likely would have been incredibly more efficient had he not been killed, and wouldt not have taken 75+ years. Lincoln wrote and delivered the Emancipation Proclamation despite harsh warnings from both the Democrats and Republicans, and made it known that the Union could not be reunited without freedom for every man in the United States. In the beginning of the Civil War, Lincoln was hestiant to declare that it was about slavery because he needed major backing from northerners, but after the war dragged on, Lincoln made it clear that the war was not simply to keep the Union intact, but that it was completely about slavery. Lincoln said that we needed to pay for our sins, especially our biggest sin of all (the institution of slavery), and it must come to an end.



The Almighty has His own purposes. . . . If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came"

-Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:21 am
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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Also freeing the slaves was a strategical blow against the south, who relied more on slave labor than the north anyhow.
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:30 am
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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
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This is very interesting. Keep it coming!
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:33 am
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Mr Ass



Joined: 17 Aug 2002
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I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favour of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races; that I am not, nor ever have been, in favour of making voters or jurers of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people...."

Abraham Lincoln 1958

(Howard Zinn - A people's History of the United States - pp184)
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 2:22 am
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argot



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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yes  Reply with quote  

Lincoln's freeing of slaves did not save them from the social scrutiny and other bullshit that they went through. i.e.obviously racism, lynchings, other disgusting acts, lack of job finding, etc.

peace
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:14 am
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
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Much of Lincoln's views on slavery drastically changed during the course of the Civil War, after seeing thousands of blacks take up arms in federal uniforms. He then became the greatest practical abolitionist the world will have ever seen.


"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it."

-Abraham Lincoln, Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."

-Abraham Lincoln, Speech to One Hundred Fortieth Indiana Regiment


Last edited by prolifik on Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:58 am; edited 2 times in total
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:47 am
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prolifik



Joined: 02 Oct 2002
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Re: yes  Reply with quote  

argot wrote:
Lincoln's freeing of slaves did not save them from the social scrutiny and other bullshit that they went through. i.e.obviously racism, lynchings, other disgusting acts, lack of job finding, etc.

peace



How else would you expect thousands of former slave owners to treat the freed blacks who stayed in the South? Use your brain, you can't go from pure evil to a peaceful nirvana in a couple of days. Steps toward reconstruction were slowed with the assassination of Lincoln, which brought Andrew Johnson into office, a southern democrat with a strong belief in state's rights. This was the beginning of a half century of weak administrations that cared little about enforcing the 15th amendment, and equal rights on a federal level.
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:57 am
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Varick_Pyr



Joined: 06 Jul 2002
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Mr Ass wrote:
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favour of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races; that I am not, nor ever have been, in favour of making voters or jurers of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people...."

Abraham Lincoln 1958

(Howard Zinn - A people's History of the United States - pp184)


you mean 1858?

I've read some things about how much Lincoln enjoyed the word "nigger" in the confines of friends and family. The Emancipation Proclaimation was definately a political move against the South and nothing more.
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:20 am
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Mr Ass



Joined: 17 Aug 2002
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Lazarus Divine wrote:
Mr Ass wrote:
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favour of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races; that I am not, nor ever have been, in favour of making voters or jurers of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people...."

Abraham Lincoln 1958

(Howard Zinn - A people's History of the United States - pp184)


you mean 1858?




Oops, yes!
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:53 am
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JTP



Joined: 09 Jul 2002
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There's another side to the story you were taught in grade-school.

Quotes from Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream by Lerone Bennett Jr.

"Surrounded by the perks of power, at peace with the world, the president-elect was regaling old acquaintances with tall tales about his early days as a politician. One of the visistors interrupted this monologue and remarked that it was a shame that 'the vexatious slavery matter' would be the first question of public poloicy the new president would have to deal with in Washington. The president-elect's eyes twinkled and he said he was reminded of a story. Acoording to eyewitness Henry Villard, President-elect Abraham Lincoln 'told the sotry of the Kentucky Justice of Peace whose first case was a criminal prosecution for the abuse of slaves. Unable to find any precedent, he exclaimed angrily: 'I will be damned if I don't feel almost sorry for being elected when the niggers is the first thing I have to attend to.'"

"A growing body of evidence suggests that Lincoln's Proclamation was a tactical move designed not to emancipate the lsaves but to keep as many slaves as possible in slavery until Lincoln could mobolize support for his conservative plan to free Blacks gradually and to ship them out of the country. What Lincoln was trying to do, then, from our standpoint, was to outmaneuver the real emancipators and to contain the emancipation tide, which had reached such a dangerous intensity that it threatened his ability to govern and to run the war machinery."

"On September 22, 1862, one day before the effective date of the Revolutionary Confiscation Act, Lincoln signed the Preliminary Emancipation Act, which effectively postponed or nullified the emancipating and confiscating required under that act."

"In one of the most startling-and revealing-statements of his presidency, Lincoln said he regretted that District of Columbia slaves had been freed at once, 'that it should have been for gradual emancipation,' and 'that now families would at once be deprived of cooks, stable boys and they of their protectors without any provision for them.'"

"The insensitivity colored Lincoln's whole presidency. General James Samual Wadsworth, who saw Lincoln amost every day at the height of the crisis and who was with him 'frequently for 5 or 6 hours at the War Department,' was shocked by the racism in the Lincoln White House, whre Lincoln 'frequently' spoke of 'the nigger question' and debated whether this or that act would 'touch the nigger.'" & "General Wadsworth said that Lincoln was contemptuous of abolitionists and 'spoke often of the slaves as cattle.'"

"Ralph Waldo Emerson said in his Journal that Lincoln 'thinks Emancipation almost morally wrong and resorts to it only as a desperate measure'"

"Who freed these slaves? To the extent that they were ever 'freed', they were freed by the Thriteenth Amendment, which was authored and pressured into existance not by Lincoln but by the great emancipators nobody knows, the abolitionists and congressional leaders who created the climate and generated the pressure that goaded, prodded, drove, forced Lincoln into glory by associating him with a policy that he adamantly opposed for at least fifty-four of the fifty-six years of his life."
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:20 am
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Dee



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
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It was socially acceptable for a white person to use "nigger" at the time Lincoln was around. Don't judge a historicaly figure by our standards. Your grandparents have probably used it.

Lincoln need the support of the border states along the mason-dixon line, so he HAD to play to their prejudices and told them that their slaves were safe.
The emancipation freed the slaves in the southern states...not the ones in the north UNTIL the war was over, and Lincoln freed ALL of the slaves.
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 12:14 pm
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Sarcastro



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
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Lincoln  Reply with quote  

Im not tottally sure of the credibility of this, since i've only read it on the internet but I heard that Lincoln was actually not a fan of giving blacks equal rights and in almost his grand scheme wanted to get blacks out of america. Does anyone know if this is true or false.

and regardin the original post, even after the civil war in the south the blacks weren't even close to free.
Post Sun Oct 13, 2002 1:02 pm
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