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is anti-christian sentiment that bad
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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you will interpret that atheism doesn't have ideas against freedom INHERENT in it even though we have historical precedents of atheistic tyrannies, yet you will say that it IS INHERENT in Christianity.


I don't have time for a long response, but let me jsut say something on this

Aethism is merely a believe that no gods exist. Nothing more.

However, christianity is more than just a belief in jesus. Christians have a book that is the basis of their religion. There is no such equivelant in aethism.

So christians can say "look the bible, aka the word of god, says homosexuals are wrong and we must ban them"

An aethist can not do that. There are no anti-freedom ideas that come directly from a lack of belief in God. There is no holy book to turn to.

this is what I meant
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:13 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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I would also argue that christianity has some inherent values, that aethism doesn't and which could easily lead to anti-freedom stances.

For example, there is an inherent hiearchy built into christianity. An inherent submission to authority. (especially in catholocism).

Christianity also presupposes that anyone who is not christian will go to hell. This easily, and logically, leads to trying to "save" everyone else and this can be done by forcing them to act christian.

shit I gotta run
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:19 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 3087
Location: Wisconsin
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I LOVE how I always get these "oh high exalted sneeb" phrases coming at me.... I mean, all I do is espouse my strong opinions just the same as anyone else.


Look... believe what you want. But at least study these things a bit. I have studied this stuff quite a bit. The vatican does keep documents secret from the public. I can easily prove this. Go to the vatican and ask for the key to the basement. You will get fucked up.


Also, I never claimed that I KNEW christ did shrooms or banged mary magdalene (sp?)... I'm just saying that some texts have slipped through that kind of mention things like this.


There are some funky things in the dead sea scrolls that ARE public..... the fact that they were made public in any way really pisses the vatican off.



All I'm saying is that we have fucked up the real story of Christ. The church of england was fucked. FUCKED. It was all about power, nothing more. Read your history kids. The church of england was FUUUUCKED.


For all of you that don't believe me, you can kiss my fire and brimstone.
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:34 pm
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ILL SEER



Joined: 03 Sep 2002
Posts: 117
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August:

I would say that atheism inherently leads to relativism, which leads to despotism. The ruler has no reason to accept a moral standard and because he can do what he wants, and historically they have. Beleive it or not more people have been killed by Athiests than Christians or Muslims in the 20th century. I guess I'm saying that this mere idea of atheism has a lot of repurcussions that can be just as damning as a misinterpretation of the Bible.

Sneeb:

I've studied these things for 10 years of post-secondary. Now I'm teaching it at the colelge level. Even scholars who are anti-Christian wouldn't claim most of what you've said.

The Dead Sea scrolls are BEFORE Christ, so it doesn't do nearly as much as you are saying. The religious scholars were over-joyed when they were found for obvious historical reasons.

The Church of England is irrelevant as to our story of Christ, the crucial arguments lay more than a milleinum before that. We have people quoting the Bible in in the middle of the 2nd century AD at least so we know at least those parts haven't been messed with.
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:46 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


Joined: 01 Jul 2002
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Alright then.... then drop some science about the ergot bread that is in the bible all over the place.


The ergot bread is ARGUED by MANY to be the bread Christ broke at the last supper. Ergot is a hallucinogenic and these same people feel that christianity was founded on these ergot trips.


The gnostics are another group I would like to hear about from you, seeing as you are a teacher on these things. The gnostics were around VERY early on after Christ and they were on some shit boyyyy. Those guys thought they were talking to god the same way Christ could... literally. There is a lot of proof that these guys were eating the mushrooms. Why do we not hear about these things if the Vatrican isn't hiding anything?


And.... as such a scholar as yourself.... do you feel that the Vatican is good or evil? The Vatican has its head up its ass and I would love to hear your views on why the vatican doesn't have its head up its ass.


As for your claims that the bible hasn't been fucked with.... it can't be proven, at all. In either direction. If it was fucked with at any point in time, it was a conspiracy that has been long forgotten. So we are at a stalemate there. It doesn't matter to me because either way it was written by men, not God... so it's ALL bullshit as far as I'm concerned. Unless you believe God recited the bible to those guys... but if you DO believe that, then you believe in gnosis. And that brings us back to the early gnostics.... so lay it down. I wanna hear all about them according to the college you are going to.
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:03 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


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Oh... and I haven't said anything here that hasn't been said plenty of times by many other people. You saying that even anti-christians wouldnt even say most of what I'm saying shows how naive you are. Don't they teach you the whole spectrum of ideas about your faith or just what the Vatican deems to be truth? Come on. You have never heard this stuff I'm saying???



"Hi. Did you fuckin idiot christians know that the bible has been revised by the church of england and other such albatrosses so many times that the amount of truth in the king james version is probably below 1%?


Hi. Did you fucking idiot Catholics know that God never said anything about priests not having wives and that it was the order of a pope who wanted to preserve the power of his papacy?


Hi. Did you fucking idiot Christians know that Jesus looked completely unlike any of your depictions? Anthroplogists whisper in my ear that Jesus would have most likely beeen 5'1 with a little scounch ugly face that was as dark as the darkest iraqi man. "




The only thing I will concede is that 1% thing. I was totally exaggerating that for effect, I admit that. I was trying to piss you guys off with that 1%... other than that though, I have said nothing weird at all.


Last edited by SneepSnopDotCom on Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:08 pm
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futuristxen



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Yeah I second that. Gnostics are the most interesting part about Christianity to me.(though it's kind of a misnomer to say gnostics, because the word refers to many many sects). But for a long time, Gnosticism was the chief version of christianity, and orthodox was the crazy heretics running around.

It's too bad the church decided to go on a mission to eradicate the gnostic texts.
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:09 pm
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SneepSnopDotCom
COCKRING WRAITH


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And yes. As far as the Vatican is concerned, I AM on some conspiracy shit. I question ANY group that claims to be all-good and wonderful, but then HIDES things from its people.


The vatican also helped the Nazis. Try to disprove that. Oh please try to disprove that.
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:15 pm
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sequence



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The fact that atheism can in many ways lead to relativism and so on is unfortunately not an argument against it. While I agree, ethical relativism can be an extremely dangerous way to think, as well as extremely irritating to deal with as a teacher (which I'm sure you've experienced), it is a fact about the world today that many, many people live their lives as if everything is truly relative. So, the question for me, and for many other atheists who I'm sure you're familiar with, is not to pick an ideology out of the historical bag and run with it in order to have order and meaning, right and wrong, and other such binary oppositions restored, but rather to attempt to figure out how to bring about a new brand of universalism not based upon a system that has been historically proven to be dangerous.

The reason these dangers arrive, and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir about this, is that it is not as if Christianity is the only absolutist ethical system on the planet today, and as they all think they're right, quarrels ensue. Thus to reiterate, the problem is not merely to create new ethical systems to stand in opposition to those already existing (I would argue it is those that are already existence, atheism not included for reasons that August has already explained, ie, it is kind of hard to say I'm an atheist and accordingly I live my life in the following way, as it is a negative belief), but instead to find new ways to be critical of other ideological mechanisms without merely furthering the already existing quandary. What the hell does that mean? I don't know, but I'm damn sure that I am not jumping on board Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Americanism, or any other currently existing -ism in order to give myself the aforementioned capacity.
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:51 pm
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FoJaR's account is broken



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SneebDotCom wrote:
You are talking out of your ass ill seer!!!!!!!!!


The vatican wont even let us see half the shit they have.


We find scrolls and texts that elude to mushroom use and christ fucking mary magdalene and guess what? It gets thrown into the catacombs.


We don't know shit about what really happened and if you think we do you are a triangle head. And by triangle, I mean the musical instrument, not the geometric formation.


sneeb, i LOVE YOU
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:33 pm
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MOS



Joined: 19 Jul 2002
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[quote="FroJaR"][quote="SneebDotCom"]You are talking out of your ass ill seer!!!!!!!!!


The vatican wont even let us see half the shit they have.


We find scrolls and texts that elude to mushroom use and christ fucking mary magdalene and guess what? It gets thrown into the catacombs.quote

where and when did we find these scolls and texts???
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:35 pm
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hugh grants hooker
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August Spies wrote:

For example, there is an inherent hiearchy built into christianity. An inherent submission to authority. (especially in catholocism).



ok, so AS I POSTED ONCE ALREADY. there is NO hiearchy in christianity.

this is the "food chain" (haha) according to the bible:

God
Mankind
everything else.
------------------------

there are no 'levels' to mankind, or religion. the preacher is no closer to god or on no higher level than some hobo who just walked in off the street. the preacher merely has more to say. haha
but usually if you just ask they'll "pass the mic".
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:45 pm
 
FoJaR's account is broken



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^^ word.
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:46 pm
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Absurd_Life



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
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SneebDotCom wrote:

All I'm saying is that we have fucked up the real story of Christ. The church of england was fucked. FUCKED. It was all about power, nothing more. Read your history kids. The church of england was FUUUUCKED.


For all of you that don't believe me, you can kiss my fire and brimstone.


I couldn't agree more. I think the basis of Christianity is all good and well, but the churches totally fucked with it and turned it into what they wanted.

Before there was a very strong central government in most of Europe, the church had the only real power and to keep people in line they told them they were going to hell to scare the shit out of them with the threat of eternal suffering.
Personally, I think that Christianity could very well have some truth in it, but I refuse to believe in a hell because theistic dualism just doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me. Good and Evil do not exist in such black and white ways.
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:48 pm
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MC Pope



Joined: 16 Jul 2003
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[quote="MOS"][quote="FroJaR"]
SneebDotCom wrote:
You are talking out of your ass ill seer!!!!!!!!!


The vatican wont even let us see half the shit they have.


We find scrolls and texts that elude to mushroom use and christ fucking mary magdalene and guess what? It gets thrown into the catacombs.quote

where and when did we find these scolls and texts???


This is from the Gospel of Philip:

'And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples [...]. They said to him "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them,"Why do I not love you like her? When a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness." '

For information on this and other Nag Hammadi texts, consult www.gnosis.org. Truly, it is interesting shit ...
Post Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:52 pm
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