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the removal of the 10 commandments statue
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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This reminds me of a story. Anecdotal in nature, and it goes to prove nothing - but I love telling it. ;-)

I had to go in front of the judge a few years ago because I was caught with 0.0 Grams of Marijuana (yes, that's EXACTLY what the police report said - it'll be in my next album if I can find it).

When I was about to plead guilty in order to get a CWOF, I was told the usual spiel by the courtroom clerk:

"Please raise your right hand."

<no hand raise>

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"

Now...my palms get sweaty...my eyebrows are raining in my eyes...I could just say "Yes" but there's so many problems with that. #1, it means nothing if I swear to God. He's not there to "validate" my claims, nor was he likely to come down and say "Word up, that's what happened!"...so it's kinda pointless to swear to him if you don't beleive in him, I wanted the court to think I WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Secondly, it violates the sepeparation and always has. I know that I'm no crusader, and I there's no reason to think this is a world turning event or anything - but I'd rather do something than think that I just ate the shit without so much as a chaser.


Finally, I muster the courage to say:

"I would like to respectfully request a secular alternative from the court."

The clerk looked at me like my words had forced her brain out the back of her head and she looked up at the judge with this "What the fuck do I do now?" look.

He chuckled and said, "Shane, are you going to tell the truth?"

I said, "Yes."

And we continued.

I was shitting my pants for nothing. It was my right to ask for it, and if I'm ever in the unfortunate situation of being in court again - I will keeping asking for it.

<shrug>

- Shane
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:24 pm
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hugh grants hooker
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August Spies wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but you can take the oath in different ways can't you? they dont' make a muslim take the oath on a bible.


i dont think so. i think they actually do just use the bible because of its symbolic position of 'truth and justice'.

if they want to seperate church and state, thats fine. we cant stop them. but jeez... be consistent. dont expect people to help get rid of religion when they worn sworn in with a christian bible.

also, doesnt the senate and congress still hold prayer before all meetings? then they vote to remove prayer from schools and church references from buildings.
twisted.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:24 pm
 
August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Quote:

alabama would not still have slaves. period.



If alabama worked as you think it should, aka the majority of Tax paying citizens should decide what happens, then the south would have kept having slaves (who were, of course, not tax payers).

If their had not been a war to stop it, it is hard to say how long slavery would have gone on. But at the very least it would have lasted quite a while longer than it did.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:25 pm
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FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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MessiahCarey wrote:
This reminds me of a story. Anecdotal in nature, and it goes to prove nothing - but I love telling it. ;-)

I had to go in front of the judge a few years ago because I was caught with 0.0 Grams of Marijuana (yes, that's EXACTLY what the police report said - it'll be in my next album if I can find it).

When I was about to plead guilty in order to get a CWOF, I was told the usual spiel by the courtroom clerk:

"Please raise your right hand."

<no hand raise>

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"

Now...my palms get sweaty...my eyebrows are raining in my eyes...I could just say "Yes" but there's so many problems with that. #1, it means nothing if I swear to God. He's not there to "validate" my claims, nor was he likely to come down and say "Word up, that's what happened!"...so it's kinda pointless to swear to him if you don't beleive in him, I wanted the court to think I WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Secondly, it violates the sepeparation and always has. I know that I'm no crusader, and I there's no reason to think this is a world turning event or anything - but I'd rather do something than think that I just ate the shit without so much as a chaser.


Finally, I muster the courage to say:

"I would like to respectfully request a secular alternative from the court."

The clerk looked at me like my words had forced her brain out the back of her head and she looked up at the judge with this "What the fuck do I do now?" look.

He chuckled and said, "Shane, are you going to tell the truth?"

I said, "Yes."

And we continued.

I was shitting my pants for nothing. It was my right to ask for it, and if I'm ever in the unfortunate situation of being in court again - I will keeping asking for it.

<shrug>

- Shane


haha.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:26 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Quote:

i thought we lived in a democracy,


you thought wrong. We live in a Republic (or more acturately a pretend republic)

A democracy works on the votes of the people. A republic works on the votes of representatvies of the people.


Quote:

i dont think so. i think they actually do just use the bible because of its symbolic position of 'truth and justice'.


hmm does anyone know for a fact?


Quote:

. but jeez... be consistent.

well one thing we can agree on.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:28 pm
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hugh grants hooker
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FoJaR wrote:
i can see the points of both sides. who cares, it's in ALABAMA.


this is what i've said repeatedly about all the new york bullshit.

who cares its in new york.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:28 pm
 
MessiahCarey



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 10924
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FoJaR wrote:
i can see the points of both sides. who cares, it's in ALABAMA.


Yes, but if it's allowed in one state it sets the precedent for further breeches of the seperation of church and state in other areas.

August is probably on point with the slavery thing - but it could've gone either way.

The thing is, to me, the people shouldn't get a chance to vote on seperation issues because it's not in the spirit of the Constitution. The Constitution wanted to prevent a religious state - even if everyone wanted it. They had come from a fundamentalist religious government (and the 100 years war and whatnot...) and were fully aware of the treachery it leads to.

Iraq wants a Muslim government and we won't let them have that, but we can have a Christian fundamentalist government and that's alright? Ummm...yeah...I agree, let's be fucking consistent.

Get those prayers out of Congress.
Get that bible out of my courtroom.
Get those 10 commandments out my school hallways.
Get those vouchers shut the fuck down so I don't pay for religious schools when I already pay for substandard public "secular" schools.

And for crying out fucking loud, get that God shit off the money...it's eerily metaphorical.

- Shane


Last edited by MessiahCarey on Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:28 pm
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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MessiahCarey wrote:
This reminds me of a story. Anecdotal in nature, and it goes to prove nothing - but I love telling it. ;-)

I had to go in front of the judge a few years ago because I was caught with 0.0 Grams of Marijuana (yes, that's EXACTLY what the police report said - it'll be in my next album if I can find it).

When I was about to plead guilty in order to get a CWOF, I was told the usual spiel by the courtroom clerk:

"Please raise your right hand."

<no hand raise>

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"

Now...my palms get sweaty...my eyebrows are raining in my eyes...I could just say "Yes" but there's so many problems with that. #1, it means nothing if I swear to God. He's not there to "validate" my claims, nor was he likely to come down and say "Word up, that's what happened!"...so it's kinda pointless to swear to him if you don't beleive in him, I wanted the court to think I WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

Secondly, it violates the sepeparation and always has. I know that I'm no crusader, and I there's no reason to think this is a world turning event or anything - but I'd rather do something than think that I just ate the shit without so much as a chaser.


Finally, I muster the courage to say:

"I would like to respectfully request a secular alternative from the court."

The clerk looked at me like my words had forced her brain out the back of her head and she looked up at the judge with this "What the fuck do I do now?" look.

He chuckled and said, "Shane, are you going to tell the truth?"

I said, "Yes."

And we continued.

I was shitting my pants for nothing. It was my right to ask for it, and if I'm ever in the unfortunate situation of being in court again - I will keeping asking for it.

<shrug>

- Shane


But they still got you because that judge was, in fact, God.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:29 pm
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hugh grants hooker
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August Spies wrote:

Quote:

alabama would not still have slaves. period.



If alabama worked as you think it should, aka the majority of Tax paying citizens should decide what happens, then the south would have kept having slaves (who were, of course, not tax payers).

If their had not been a war to stop it, it is hard to say how long slavery would have gone on. But at the very least it would have lasted quite a while longer than it did.


i cant vouch for something older than 25 years ago. i wasnt around to know the general consensus of the people.

i DO know that right now... or anytime in my memorable past... slavery would NOT be welcomed in alabama.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:30 pm
 
FoJaR



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Posts: 1534
Location: VA.
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ZING!

hahaha.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:30 pm
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August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Quote:

i DO know that right now... or anytime in my memorable past... slavery would NOT be welcomed in alabama.


well obviously, but if slavery had never been stopped by the war people would view it far differently than they do now. Anyway, my main point was that our goverment does not work simply on the view of the majority. for good or for bad.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:31 pm
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Jesus Frank



Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 2295
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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haha yes, that was a good chuckle

August and HGH though, you two keep going at it... which is not quite as amusing.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:32 pm
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hugh grants hooker
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MessiahCarey wrote:

August is probably on point with the slavery thing


are you serious? do you really think that a modern man would vote to 'approve slavery'?

its obvious that you people have never been to alabama. its not what you've seen on some movie.

judging like this based strictly on where someone lives, is no different that actually judging based on race.

"people are people are people are people are people"
--- awol
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:34 pm
 
hugh grants hooker
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Jesus Frank wrote:
August and HGH though, you two keep going at it... which is not quite as amusing.


the sad part is that i KNOW the only thing we really disagree on is religion.
this board is so infested with relgious topics lately that it makes it seem as though we differ on everything.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:36 pm
 
August Spies



Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C.
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Quote:

well obviously, but if slavery had never been stopped by the war people would view it far differently than they do now. Anyway, my main point was that our goverment does not work simply on the view of the majority. for good or for bad.
Post Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:37 pm
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