August Spies
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C. |
most people disagree with you blunted. most peopel accept killing under certain circumstances. |
Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:40 pm |
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11603
Location: MI |
ahhhhhhhh!!!!
that still doesnt make it right though!!!! |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:41 pm |
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August Spies
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C. |
im not saying it does, I just think its a little silly to claim your position is "common sense" when the common person does not agree with it. |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:43 pm |
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August Spies
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C. |
im not saying it does, I just think its a little silly to claim your position is "common sense" when the common person does not agree with it. |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:43 pm |
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Nope
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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think of killing a person like this. You're causing the death one or more of your species. That's it, that's all there is to it. The reason I said it wasn't wrong universally is because I think there is no right and wrong at all.
Kant said that if there is a right (moral), then it applies in all cases. If lying was morally wrong and you had to lie to save the world, then you lying would still be morally wrong. That would be the nature of a TRUE moral.
I agree with him, and that's exactly why "morality" doesn't exist. It exists in our human reality...so does "randomness". Don't mean it's real.
You know, really ancient religions used to have belief systems in which if you killed anything you would go to their version of hell/limbo/whatever. Meaning that if ever in your life you stepped on a bug or cut a plant...yep you're going to hell. And in reality, if their moral values were true, then this would have to be how things should be. You're fucking with the god's design...These religions believed in a god that had a plan. If you died it was god's will. Just like people say cloning is wrong because you're playing god, by that rationale killing is wrong also.
so any time you kill ANYTHING, you're fucking with "the design"
I happen to think that's a very unreasonable way to go about things...and obviously they have eased up on the restrictions of what is considered bad to kill
So if these morals can change just like that...how universal can they be? |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 5:54 pm |
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August Spies
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C. |
I thought you never read books RandomSurge? how do you know about Kant's catagorical imperative.
You have it slightly wrong though, it is more like this: you must will your action (in this case lying) as a universal maxim. What would happen if everyone in the world lied? well it would make for a bad world. No one could trust each other.
Therefor lying is wrong. (this is just if you were wondering)
regardless, I think the catagorical imperative is really silly and doesn't help us much in reality. |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:09 pm |
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Nope
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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I know kant because I took philosophy classes. We were given his book to read but the teacher just went through everything in class so I never even opened the book
I still have it and do intent to read it...people say it's the toughest thing to read
Oh and I don't think the categorical imperative is silly. It CAN'T apply in our reality...just can't...but I do agree with him that if there are to be morals, that is what they would HAVE to be
otherwise they wouldn't really be REAL morals anymore
It doesn't prove that morals exist...it just shows that the morals that we use are our creation...does to me anyway.
oh and I don't think I was wrong about the kant thing...what you mentioned goes together with what I said. It's part of it as well. I was simply citing the part about the nature of morals as to WHY they have to be that way to be considered true morals at all |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:16 pm |
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A tRick with a trick
Joined: 20 Jul 2003
Posts: 152
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One just eliminates the elements that leads to killing ...
Problem solved.
Blah morals. |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:07 pm |
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11603
Location: MI |
August Spies wrote:
im not saying it does, I just think its a little silly to claim your position is "common sense" when the common person does not agree with it.
well if you wanna get technical whos the 'common person'? you and random serge are the only ones to state opionons on this |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:46 pm |
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August Spies
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C. |
bluntedinmichigan wrote:
August Spies wrote:
im not saying it does, I just think its a little silly to claim your position is "common sense" when the common person does not agree with it.
well if you wanna get technical whos the 'common person'? you and random serge are the only ones to state opionons on this
If you went down the street and asked everyone who passed "is there any instance when killing another person is acceptable?" I would bet a fair sum of money that the majority would say yes. |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:50 pm |
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11603
Location: MI |
i think your asking the wrong question
is it right to kill anyone no matter the circumstances?
i bet the answers would be totally different |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:51 pm |
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August Spies
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Posts: 1979
Location: D.C. |
that is the same questoin just worded obscurely.
The real question is "is killing ever acceptable?" no? |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:53 pm |
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11603
Location: MI |
acceptable not acceptable
right , wrong
i suppose your right....
b
heh...keep in mind.....ive never had any physc. classes or anything of the sort...
anyways im done with this thread
we got our opionons out
i got a diff. perspective on this thats why i started this thread
thanks for picking my brain
.... |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:59 pm |
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Nope
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 1916
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if you got a gun to my face and you just shot my girlfriend and I had a window of opportunity to do something and kill you
I definitely would..why wouldn't I?
and why does that have to be wrong, right or justified
it's fucking survival...life at its simplest |
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Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:02 pm |
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