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what does it mean to be agnostic?
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Mike McDermot



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 79
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"Being agnostic and confused are one in the same."

The simple defintion of agnostic is "not knowing." It is an educated form of not knowing. One looks at the evidence and then says "I can not come to a conclusion either way." It is definitely not the same as being confused. Let's use an anology. Consider a complex math problem, the highest form of calculous. Say the one looking at the problem has only knowledge of basic mathematics. That person does not look at the problem and say "I am confused as to what the answer is." But rather, "I do not have all of the knowledge necessary to solve the problem." Or, more simply, "I do not know the answer." They are not confused over whether the solution is x or y, just as an agnostic is not confused over the answer of God. Simply that, given all of the evidence at had, I don't have the information needed to make a definite descision.

As far as "Atheism" goes. Please dont identify people by what they don't believe in. Most "Atheists" who are very interested in spirituality and the universe/reality prefer to be called something which identifies them by what they DO believe. Sometimes the term Naturalist is used. A Theist surely wouldn't choose the term Anatrualist as the means by which he identifies himself to other people.
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:04 pm
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Mike McDermot



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 79
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and kese, I agree with your direction, but you're coming off a little too pretentious to insist on your own humility.
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:08 pm
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The_Human



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
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Krishnatautmi wrote:
"Being agnostic and confused are one in the same."

The simple defintion of agnostic is "not knowing." It is an educated form of not knowing. One looks at the evidence and then says "I can not come to a conclusion either way." It is definitely not the same as being confused. Let's use an anology. Consider a complex math problem, the highest form of calculous. Say the one looking at the problem has only knowledge of basic mathematics. That person does not look at the problem and say "I am confused as to what the answer is." But rather, "I do not have all of the knowledge necessary to solve the problem." Or, more simply, "I do not know the answer." They are not confused over whether the solution is x or y, just as an agnostic is not confused over the answer of God. Simply that, given all of the evidence at had, I don't have the information needed to make a definite descision.

As far as "Atheism" goes. Please dont identify people by what they don't believe in. Most "Atheists" who are very interested in spirituality and the universe/reality prefer to be called something which identifies them by what they DO believe. Sometimes the term Naturalist is used. A Theist surely wouldn't choose the term Anatrualist as the means by which he identifies himself to other people.


You sound exactly like the guy you stole your name from. Is that a quote from him or something??

Anyways, I am confused.......EVERYONE IS CONFUSED ABOUT GOD!!!!

I dont know how else to put it.

However I do understand your point.
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:09 pm
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Krang
THE ORC BREATH


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 811
Location: NSW, australia
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agnostics are ignorant


homer simpson accidently proved god didnt exist while working on a flat tax proposal
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:10 pm
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The_Human



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
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I read it a third time and that is actually an excellent analogy.

My books are in storage right now, so forgive the spelling, but that sounds exactly like Krishnamurti......

A decipal??
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:11 pm
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The_Human



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
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Krang wrote:
agnostics are ignorant


homer simpson accidently proved god didnt exist while working on a flat tax proposal



Get real, in all actuality that was an ignorant comment.

4 entries found for ignorant.
ig·no·rant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-nt)
adj.
Lacking education or knowledge.
Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
Unaware or uninformed.



AGNOSTIC PEOPLE ARE NOT IGNORANT, BUSTING INTO A CHAT WITH THAT COMMENT IS IGNORANT.
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:13 pm
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hugh grants hooker
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Mike McDermot wrote:

As far as "Atheism" goes. Please dont identify people by what they don't believe in. Most "Atheists" who are very interested in spirituality and the universe/reality prefer to be called something which identifies them by what they DO believe. Sometimes the term Naturalist is used. A Theist surely wouldn't choose the term Anatrualist as the means by which he identifies himself to other people.


we are going by definitions here. atheism is a set type of thought, if you fall into that... then by definition you are an atheist.

anaturalist isnt a word. therefore you cant really call people that. if you do call me that, i wont be offended. i'll just smile and giggle at the further destruction of language. haha

so you're saying if everyday this math problem was seen by you, and you couldnt figure out the answer to it... you would not be confused?
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:16 pm
 
penelope



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 595
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hey Blunted..

people call me agnostic because I say "It is impossible to solve the meaning of life".. so "why worry about the day after you die when you can't possibly know what will happen? why not worry about something you have control over.. say... what you want to do in the days between now and the day you die.

to me, it's not so much that I don't care, it's that I'm indifferent... it's inconsequential, it's something I have no control over. i.e. since we can't prove the existence of god, nor the non-existence of god... then it is most important to base one's decisions in life independent of the church/higher being...

Here is my example. Love yourself. In doing so you honour God (and arguably are loving God if he/she exists) but, if God doesn't exist, you've lived the most rich life possible and will be remembered in the hearts and minds of those who knew and loved you.
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:18 pm
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mortalthoughts
LAME KID


Joined: 12 Dec 2002
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penelope wrote:
hey Blunted..

people call me agnostic because I say "It is impossible to solve the meaning of life".. so "why worry about the day after you die when you can't possibly know what will happen? why not worry about something you have control over.. say... what you want to do in the days between now and the day you die.

to me, it's not so much that I don't care, it's that I'm indifferent... it's inconsequential, it's something I have no control over. i.e. since we can't prove the existence of god, nor the non-existence of god... then it is most important to base one's decisions in life independent of the church/higher being...

Here is my example. Love yourself. In doing so you honour God (and arguably are loving God if he/she exists) but, if God doesn't exist, you've lived the most rich life possible and will be remembered in the hearts and minds of those who knew and loved you.


I couldnt agree more
the only reason i asked is because ive always considered my self agnostic without knowing exactly what it means
it reality it shouldnt matter what i belive in shouldnt effect anybody else but me
but on more then a few ocasions ive caught shit for saying that i am agnostic<i think thats another topic>
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:23 pm
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The_Human



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
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penelope wrote:
hey Blunted..

people call me agnostic because I say "It is impossible to solve the meaning of life".. so "why worry about the day after you die when you can't possibly know what will happen? why not worry about something you have control over.. say... what you want to do in the days between now and the day you die.

to me, it's not so much that I don't care, it's that I'm indifferent... it's inconsequential, it's something I have no control over. i.e. since we can't prove the existence of god, nor the non-existence of god... then it is most important to base one's decisions in life independent of the church/higher being...

Here is my example. Love yourself. In doing so you honour God (and arguably are loving God if he/she exists) but, if God doesn't exist, you've lived the most rich life possible and will be remembered in the hearts and minds of those who knew and loved you.



I faintly remember hearing you talk about this topic when I first came to this board and I was totally amazed.

I whole-heartedly agree with everything you just said.

Although I may not follow the part about loving myself. Im pretty abusive.
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:24 pm
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mortalthoughts
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Joined: 12 Dec 2002
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Quote:

Although I may not follow the part about loving myself. Im pretty abusive.


me neither but im getting there
its a start
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:27 pm
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Mike McDermot



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 79
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"so you're saying if everyday this math problem was seen by you, and you couldnt figure out the answer to it... you would not be confused?[/quote]

It's all in how you look at it. The question of God doesn't bother some people that much. If I woke up and saw a calculous problem every morning, I'd probably ignore it. The analogy fails there though. One could gain the knowledge to solve the math problem, where agnostics realize that the human race does not yet have the faculties to find out whether or not God exists.

As far as the semantics of "atheist" "naturalist" "anaturalist" goes, why wouldn't you want to identify people by, not only what they do believe in rather than what they dont believe in, but what they WANT to be called. I don't believe in God, or Pink Elephants, but you want me to call you a mormon, jew, muslim, okay. I could walk around all day calling catholics "non-atheists" (hey, they fit the definition) but I have more respect for people than that. It's good to stir the pot, but not to be disrespectful.

When it comes to me sounding like Krishnamurti, The Human, I've been reading him a lot for the past 2 months or so, but no it's far from a direct quote. Krishnamurti's point of view on God is a lot more inflamatory than mine. In many passages he communicates that God is an invention of the insecure mind, a comfort zone. He also believed that organized religion was inherently bad because it was a way of deviding people. Take two men, both want to survive, to love, to be loved, to find out what truth is. But now one is a Christian and the other a Muslim. Now they spend more time on how they are different than on how they are the same, see where I'm going?
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:34 pm
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Krang
THE ORC BREATH


Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Location: NSW, australia
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The_Human wrote:
Krang wrote:
agnostics are ignorant


homer simpson accidently proved god didnt exist while working on a flat tax proposal



Get real, in all actuality that was an ignorant comment.

4 entries found for ignorant.
ig·no·rant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-nt)
adj.
Lacking education or knowledge.
Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
Unaware or uninformed.



AGNOSTIC PEOPLE ARE NOT IGNORANT, BUSTING INTO A CHAT WITH THAT COMMENT IS IGNORANT.


Don't get your panties in a knot.
It was a joke. Theres this show on TV called the simpsons, it's quite humerous, you should check it out. Homer Simpson is one of the main characters, he's quite the guy.

Thanks for that definition, when combined with my statement it makes perfect sense.
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:35 pm
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Lazy Eyed Pea



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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God thinks you're less intelligent for having this thread.
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:38 pm
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kese



Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 5454
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Mike McDermot wrote:
and kese, I agree with your direction, but you're coming off a little too pretentious to insist on your own humility.

yeah and i agree.. I herad krs say "isn't it more arrogant to tell someone else to be humble"

i'm just trying to humble arrogance with my own humility, trying to show a bIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIggg picture, i don't know whit, but all i do is search for the truth. it's all i do all day, it's a gift and a curse, but i won't get into that....
Post Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:41 pm
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